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Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by a2tech on Friday September 06, 2019 @08:01AM (#20894846)
Etsy fell apart when they failed to police non-handmade goods. For example I was looking for a picture frame and any permutation of search terms I used returned thousands of results from a handful of sellers that are obviously just Chinese junk I could buy at Wal-Mart (all mislabeled of course--I was searching for 'walnut 18x24 picture frame' and the results contained frames of all colors, shapes, and wood types). Then to make things even worse when I waded through the results I DID find someone selling a frame like I wanted, but then I looked a bit further down the page and found the EXACT same frame from another seller. They're located geographically near to each other (separate cities though) and they used the same pictures. And the prices were quite different. Some sort of scam is going on there but I'm not sure what--either people are buying from a local craftsman and reselling on Etsy, or the local craftsman is selling his products online at slightly different prices for a reason I couldn't quite grasp.
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by heymijo on Friday September 06, 2019 @08:37AM (#20895062)
> when they failed to police non-handmade goods

They never failed at this. Moving beyond handmade goods was a deliberate move.

FTA

> But the growth — and yet another round of VC funding — put even more pressure on Etsy. Chief technology officer Chad Dickerson had taken over as CEO after Kalin was voted out by the board in July 2011, and in October 2013, in an infamous town hall meeting at Etsy HQ, he announced that the company would allow sellers to contract with outside manufacturers to help make their products, so long as they designed everything themselves and were willing to provide detailed explanations of their process to Etsy’s Marketplace Integrity team.

Much of the community was aghast, fearing the change would ruin the culture of the site forever.

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by dspillett on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:41AM (#20895514)
> willing to provide detailed explanations of their process to Etsy’s Marketplace Integrity team

Either that rule has been dropped, or is simply not (adequately) enforced, in my limited experience of Etsy. Unless "I order it, it comes in a boat from China, I list it for sale" counts as a perfectly good explanation of a process.

There are still many "proper" makers on Etsy (I know people personally who use the site to sell artwork, corsets & other dressware, etc) that are genuinely hand-made, but they are often undercut by those selling similar but mass-produced alternatives (that are usually lower quality, but people often don't seem to care about that until after they receive the product, and they then judge all on Etsy by that standard).

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by fgonzag on Friday September 06, 2019 @03:22PM (#20898954)
The rule was placed so the community could swallow the pill. Once factory built products make it into the marketplace, it is a lot easier to gradually decrease rule enforcement over time, until you are effectively a niche alibaba, allowing factories to sell directly to consumers (they probably sold the board on that exact term)
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by teh_klev on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:32AM (#20895438)
> Moving beyond handmade goods was a deliberate move.

> the company would allow sellers to contract with outside manufacturers to help make their products, so long as they designed everything themselves and were willing to provide detailed explanations of their process to Etsy’s Marketplace Integrity team.

I think your interpretation is a wee bit wide of the mark. The spirit of being able to contract outside manufacturers to help make their products is somewhat different from a2tech's observation of sellers buying a bunch of cheap mass-produced crap and dumping it on Etsy.

There's a world of difference between a seller designing, for example, a nixie clock and outsourcing the PCB and perhaps some chassis/case fabrication, perhaps to China (based on your own design) and another seller dumping a bunch of imported cheap crap on the market.

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by Arnt on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:47AM (#20895585)
I like cufflinks and wear them all winter. So I buy some, and I don't mean "one pair per decade". This comment is specific to cufflinks, or maybe it just uses cufflinks as an example?

There are a lot of artisans who make cufflinks based on parts they buy, but the item on sale is really the artisan's.

There are also a lot of cufflinks on sale that aren't really artisanal, just two parts glued together with no taste or imagination, and I have to wade through these while searching for the good ones. The share looks like 99%/1% sometimes.

But:

1. It's not reasonable to deny the artisans the use of that prefab building block, because many of the good ones are good for reasons that aren't related to the prefab block.

2. I can see that it's really difficult for Etsy to draw a line between the two types. Is it reasonable or unreasonable to sell 26×26 varieties of cufflinks with initials, for example?

I don't buy anything other than cufflinks, but it seems to me that the same problem may occur in other categories. Or not.

Perhaps the real problem is that the resold items with minimal artisanal work can be spammed. That these things can fill the listing, so that the artisanal work that is the core to Etsy's business model is in the fringes of its search results.

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by mcguire on Friday September 06, 2019 @10:30AM (#20895935)
Something like https://m.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=cufflinks ?

Some of those look pretty nice.

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by Arnt on Friday September 06, 2019 @02:46PM (#20898566)
That's the second category. One end is the same, the joining bar is the same, and the other end is decorated. Once you have a few pairs, you may come to grow tired of that sameness. Here's the more artisan pair I wore yesterday. Steel wire and four well-selected pebbles from a stream:

https://arnt.gulbrandsen.priv.no/tmp/cufflinks.jpg

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by teh_klev on Friday September 06, 2019 @04:33PM (#20899618)
> Perhaps the real problem is that the resold items with minimal artisanal work can be spammed.

I agree, this is kinda the point I was trying to make (probably very badly).

I like cufflinks as well so I appreciate your appreciation of them. Sadly I don't own any shirts :/

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by Junk_Collector on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:21AM (#20895353)
You might call that a failure of management.
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by PaulHoule on Friday September 06, 2019 @01:06PM (#20897440)
My mental model for retailing is:

brand promise that appeals to consumer

+

communication of brand promise

+

delivery of brand promise

Stores that are thriving or surviving such as Wal-Mart, Amazon, Target, Dollar General, succeed at all three.

Stores that are going out of business at the mall are failing those.

Etsy delivered on those things when it was an exclusive hand-made marketplace. You could buy a magic wand that looked like it would work.

If they see themselves competing with Amazon they'll need to make a TV Network, a cloud computing service, ...

If they want me to go there instead of Amazon, however, it would be to get something I could not get on Amazon, like that magic wand.

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by fsloth on Friday September 06, 2019 @12:20PM (#20896987)
Allowing outsourcing was the morally only correct thing to do. Otherwise the craftsmen would have been doomed to eternal servitude to their art. An artists signature on a work is not a guarantee the artist vouches for working on it only themselves. It's a guarantee the artists vouches for the quality of the product. So an artist signature is more of a form of branding than a signed proof of n units of work by person x.

Lots of great artists have outsourced the commoditiziable components of their work.

If you look at craft people, the ones who try to toil alone making articles that are not thousand euro a piece luxury items you wish they would know how to leverage outsourcing so they could focus on what makes their product unique and not just a batch of labour.

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by neuralRiot on Friday September 06, 2019 @04:11PM (#20899441)
>Lots of great artists have outsourced the commoditiziable components of their work.

Not only that, there's a debate in the arts communities exactly about this since many artists employ hand labor to do the heavy or dirty work, specially those who make large sculptures or installations, still the vision is the artist's merit.

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by mcguire on Friday September 06, 2019 @10:26AM (#20895902)
The last thing I bought from Etsy was a crewel embroidery kit. It wasn't handmade; the pattern was printed on the fabric commercially. But the person selling it was the designer b there's literally no one else in the world doing that.

There's a bit of a difference between that and something that looks like Amazon search results.

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by TorKlingberg on Friday September 06, 2019 @08:08AM (#20894888)
For every comment like yours there is an other saying Etsy fell apart when they started making legitimate sellers jump thorough a bunch of hoops proving they are really hand-making their things. And a story about someone who got wrongly thrown out. I'm not sure it's possible to solve both problems.
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by Swenrekcah on Friday September 06, 2019 @08:39AM (#20895068)
It’s possible to solve both problems if you are content not to be the only provider of this service in the world. I realise the forces dictate that direction, but that’s also why everything turns to crap in the end.
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by hiccuphippo on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:00AM (#20895201)
Just have a very clear separation of both. Call one Etsy and the other EtsyExpress or something like that.
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by cellular on Friday September 06, 2019 @03:27PM (#20899001)
It's a love-hate relationship. Kickstarter also used to be about the little guy. Now you need thousand dollar videos, and pay to market your own project!

Ironically, check out mine! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poly-wants-a-cracker/po...

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by LoSboccacc on Friday September 06, 2019 @08:28AM (#20895010)
two sides of the same coin tbh.
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by opportune on Friday September 06, 2019 @10:29AM (#20895925)
Amazon is running into similar issues too with counterfeit items and other scammers. In fact I think this happens with any sufficiently large ecommerce platform

It all boils down to inability to scale. These companies have internal narratives that they will scale completely horizontally and that they can automate everything. But at the end of the day I don't think anybody has eliminated the need to perform due diligence on their supply chain. What's strange is that Etsy and Amazon would rather their brands be damaged than hire more people to police what goes on their platforms

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by mattmcknight on Friday September 06, 2019 @11:47AM (#20896695)
I'd say the primary similarity is the marketplace of third party sellers. For products where Amazon.com is the seller, it has about as many problems as anywhere else. Where Amazon.com is not the seller, it is like etsy or ebay, where the product listings themselves are completely unreliable. The #1 thing I hate about Amazon is how they mix third party items with items where they are the seller. However, third party has grown from 3% to 58% of sales on the site, so I don't see how they can get rid of it or fix it.

https://qz.com/1592802/jeff-bezos-third-party-sellers-on-ama...

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by onemoresoop on Friday September 06, 2019 @12:45PM (#20897228)
I suspect that was a deliberate move to squeeze more profit in a quicker manner.
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by arbitrage on Friday September 06, 2019 @11:11AM (#20896326)
> Amazon is running into similar issues too with counterfeit items and other scammers

amazon has been running into this issue for decades. it's a constant ebb & flow. this is not new information.

Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by scrungus on Friday September 06, 2019 @11:18AM (#20896406)
you have to spend money to make money
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by arbitrage on Monday September 09, 2019 @02:13PM (#20920729)
That has absolutely no bearing on anything I said.
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by wl on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:54AM (#20895641)
I've had good luck with Etsy when buying things you can't find at Walmart. There's plenty of knitters and crocheters on Etsy who use the site to avoid accumulating finished objects. They're usually willing to do custom things, too. And Etsy is home to the only person in the world (that I know of) who is doing modern reproductions of cuneiform tablets.
Re:Was Etsy too good to be true? by deltron3030 on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:56AM (#20895658)
Etsy became a platform for private label sellers, similar to Amazon's marketplace, but with a slightly different audience that focuses more on whimsical and feminine aesthetics.