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Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by thomascgalvin on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:15PM (#20779899)
> In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs. It is relying less on the criminal justice toolbox to deal with hard drugs and more on the public health toolbox.

America's puritanical urges result in more self-harm than anything else. So much of the way our nation is structured is based on some ancient idea that you have to live clean and work hard in order to get to heaven. That is combined with a sense of justified sadism: if we catch someone not living up to these ideals, it is appropriate to punish them, and appropriate to take pleasure in punishing them.

The War on Drugs was never about public health. It was about 1. controlling minorities, and 2. moral superiority. So there's absolutely no surprise that a health-based approach is showing better results than a punishment-based approach.

Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by cat199 on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:49PM (#20780343)
.. and so further, the pre-determined dualism argues, if you aren't up to being 'perfect', you obvously must be a 'bad person', creating an internal self-shame which can't easily be dealt with, other than conforming to the 'bad' archetype..
Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by drcode on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:55PM (#20780420)
If you think there is more drug-related crime and public heroin injections in "puritan" US cities like Seattle vs European cities like Frankfurt or Amsterdam... you must not travel very much.
Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by redisman on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:06PM (#20780557)
What are the Pioneer Square and "3rd and pike" of Frankfurt or Amsterdam?
Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by timdev2 on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:32PM (#20780896)
Anecdotally, I observed daytime public intravenous drug use within my first 3 hours on the ground in Frankfurt a few years ago. I don't know exactly where, but it was within walking radius of the main train station. I think it was in/adjacent to some kind of red-light district.
Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by thomascgalvin on Friday August 23, 2019 @03:53PM (#20781896)
You understand that the whole point of this article is that Seattle is turning away from the traditional view of drug use - a moral failing that needs to be punished - and toward a more modern view - a medical condition that needs treatment - right?

Punishment of drug use does nothing to prevent drug use. Its only value, therefore, is sadism.

Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by drcode on Friday August 23, 2019 @04:41PM (#20782330)
I wasn't replying to the article, I was responding to your claim that this change (as already exists in non-US cities) would lead to better results.

I support decriminalization on purely moral grounds, but am skeptical this will lead to less (and not more) drug-related crime or public use of hard drugs, based on my anecdotal observations in Europe.

[dead]
Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by dang on Saturday August 24, 2019 @06:16PM (#20790073)
Would you please stop using HN for ideological battle? We ban accounts that do that, regardless of which side they're on or against.

It's not what this site is for, because it destroys the intellectual curiosity it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by thomascgalvin on Friday August 23, 2019 @03:56PM (#20781931)
> It should be a scorched earth tactic against smugglers, dealers, and producers ... a merciless, ruthless, hunt for these people that are then erased as the war criminals and pestilence on humanity they are ... the mass murderers they are.

What if, instead, we mercilessly and ruthlessly cut off their source of money: the premium people pay for illegal drugs exactly because they are illegal? Bootleggers weren't put out of business by Elliot Ness, they were put out of business by the end of prohibition.

Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by is_this_valid2 on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:22PM (#20780756)
There's strict liability (without legal regulated supply we have essentially zero liability) and there's near-genocide.

"Scorched Earth", "erased as the war criminals and pestilence on humanity they are", further abused, forced into same-sex incarcerated relationships. We've tried this. It hasn't solved yet.

"Just kill them" for climbing without a rope? For risking their long-term health for short-term relief from physical and mental trauma and subsequent addiction, for not violating anyone else's rights but their own, you think you have the right (and moral obligation!) to violate their rights? Because they're inferior. They're an eyesore. "Eliminate the weak!" (who aren't violating the rights of others). Can you think of groups of people in human history who have taken that approach, violated the rights of others, and been cured by subsequent prison?

With the savings from not paying $50,000 a year for learn-to-silently-move-tax-free-contraband-in-cool-school incarceration and attempted concurrent rehabilitation (while the right to address personal health matters is denied), there should be plenty of money to prosecute property crime and littering and biohazards. Let me just reward you with food, a place to stay, gangs, and zero need for personal financial responsibility.

You litter in the street, the park, an alleyway, where f'ing kids play, you spend some of your time cleaning that s' up. For free. Because that's violating the rights of other people.

Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by cat199 on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:51PM (#20780359)
but then how would we back-channel support our preferred political factions in the drug producing countries??
Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by cat199 on Saturday August 24, 2019 @06:31PM (#20790124)
Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by sukilot on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:29PM (#20780866)
The War of Drugs, like most things, is abused by the rich and powerful.

But would you seriously look a Black mother or father in their face and tell her that her child is dead (and they are broke) because he freed himself from the oppressive Puritanical culture and enjoyed drugging himself to death and stealing their resources to feed his addiction?

Re:In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs by thomascgalvin on Friday August 23, 2019 @03:50PM (#20781859)
My point is that those puritanical beliefs create grieving parents, because we seek to punish addicts instead of treating them.

America sees addiction as a moral failing which can be flagellated away, not as a medical condition requiring treatment.