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Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by _nickwhite on Sunday August 18, 2019 @07:26PM (#20733612)
Google is what, a 3/4 TRILLION dollar company, based on market cap! It's absolutely unfathomable that they have such a prolific reputation of non-customer service and inability to contact them. Any other company would suffer massive consequences with customer service that poor. What will it take for them to turn this around? Maybe they believe they are too big for this to matter?
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by HenryBemis on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:30PM (#20734668)
Some people wrote below but I didn't see the key words that came to my mind. You are not Google's customer. You are Google's product. The customers are the ad/tracking networks.

Unless you pay Google for some services, you are their product. Products don't complain. They sit in the super market waiting for a customer we to pick them up. We have discussed plenty that "if _it_ is free then you are the product", I am afraid in majority of Google's end users, this is true.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by lern_too_spel on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:38PM (#20734700)
This is incorrect. I have rented a movie from Google. I am their customer in every sense of the word. I cannot get customer service for my rental. Whether something is free or not has almost nothing to do with the service you get unless your account is in the tens of millions of dollars.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by mayankkaizen on Monday August 19, 2019 @12:38AM (#20734941)
You are still more of a product than a customer. Renting a movie vs giving your data. Guess which is more important to google?

If Google were purely in a business of renting movies, it would have give you some customer service. But it isn't in that business, so it won't give you a damn.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by cmsj on Monday August 19, 2019 @06:02AM (#20736394)
Google rarely gives good customer service to any of their customers. Good customer service requires lots of humans, which, in the Google hivemind, "doesn't scale" and is therefore not worth doing.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by egman_ekki on Monday August 19, 2019 @11:35AM (#20738663)
Not to defend Google, but I have rented a movie once, saw it does only have subtitles in languages I don't understand and was able to speak to a customer support via live text chat and get the refund on the same evening. It's frustrating as hell, though, that I can't tell what subtitle languages are included with the rental...
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by fourthark on Monday August 19, 2019 @12:01AM (#20734787)
It was probably worth more to them to know you watched it, than to rent it to you.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by wutbrodo on Monday August 19, 2019 @01:46AM (#20735197)
You may be grossly overestimating ad prices. A datum is damn near worthless, but data in the aggregate is valuable because of the scale of these companies.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by Shaddox on Monday August 19, 2019 @06:00AM (#20736384)
User tracking seems to be far more valuable than ads. I'm currently subcontracting for a specific large media trust. Ad contracts are in total about 6 figure numbers. User tracking, sponsored content and skins (custom stylesheets with a sponsor's branding and tracking) are very substantial 7 or 8 digit contracts.

While it's true his own activity isn't worth much, it's still a piece of a very lucrative pie. There are services already oriented specifically around user tracking.

I guess they're oing by the principle of individual behavior is unpredictable, but mass behavior is.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by jbarham on Sunday August 18, 2019 @09:59PM (#20734310)
If you're a Google Ads buyer, Google is easy to contact. If you're a mere Google products user, good luck getting help via their crowdsourced message boards...
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by baroffoos on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:12PM (#20734590)
What kind of google people are you contacting though? From what I have heard its very easy to contact someone who will help you set up your ads account to spend money but I imagine its a lot harder to find someone who can do anymore than show you how to use the product.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by manigandham on Sunday August 18, 2019 @10:21PM (#20734402)
Even with Google ads, there are plenty of 7-figure spenders who have trouble reaching customer service.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by jbarham on Monday August 19, 2019 @12:02AM (#20734793)
Hmm, at least where I am in Australia the Google Ads 1800 number is listed three times before I even login: https://ads.google.com/intl/en_AU/home/
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by manigandham on Monday August 19, 2019 @09:54AM (#20737741)
That's for reaching a basic customer support line that'll do little more than tell you where to put in your credit card info. If you need serious help, especially with account problems, you better know someone inside.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by erklik on Monday August 19, 2019 @12:29AM (#20734909)
I have called their 1800 number and they have been fairly helpful. Maybe I am just lucky.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by h1d on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:45PM (#20734724)
Google thinks they're the smart bunch and the customers are there to serve them. It's just company attitude.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by gwbas1c on Sunday August 18, 2019 @10:55PM (#20734522)
Class action lawsuit
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by peterwwillis on Monday August 19, 2019 @12:24AM (#20734878)
In theory yes, but I can't imagine what the claim would be; "They won't let me make a business out of selling apps on their platform" ?

It feels like monopoly would be easier to prove: "There is no other competitor to provide an app on these devices and people depend on them for critical tasks". In a way, this mimics the breakup of Ma Bell. AT&T controlled all the phone service, and they also created all the hardware that ran all the phone service. Rather than divest their ownership of the hardware, AT&T proposed to break itself up, so "local operating companies" would own the last mile, supposedly creating competition.

Google could do the same thing by allowing device manufacturers (or whomever) to install their own Play Store, and users of devices could choose what Play Store to use.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by doodliego on Monday August 19, 2019 @01:38AM (#20735161)
Get 100 developers and small companies with similar stories and it should be easy to convince a jury that Google arbitrarily, without cause or review, destroyed these people's livelihoods and should be held liable and accountable.

EULA is not some magic shield against the actual court system, either.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by Fnoord on Monday August 19, 2019 @06:02AM (#20736392)
> In theory yes, but I can't imagine what the claim would be; "They won't let me make a business out of selling apps on their platform" ?

The narrative is that they killed the business without a fair due process. Then they wouldn't listen to the "customer"'s complaint or questions for clarification. It is bad "customer" service.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by gwbas1c on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:03PM (#20751431)
The plaintiffs just have to prove harm. Based on the article, this looks very easy to do.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by wutbrodo on Monday August 19, 2019 @01:45AM (#20735184)
> Google is what, a 3/4 TRILLION dollar company, based on market cap!

Their market cap is about 800 billion...I don't think 3 trillion dollar companies exist yet

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by gesman on Monday August 19, 2019 @01:55AM (#20735234)
3/4 = 0.75 ~$750-800B
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by pdonis on Sunday August 18, 2019 @07:54PM (#20733731)
> they have such a prolific reputation of non-customer service

No, they don't, because Android developers and users are not Google's customers. Google gets no direct revenue from them so it has no incentive to provide the kind of customer service that would be expected for a paying customer. The only incentive they have is to provide whatever services will get them more revenue from their actual customers: ad purchasers.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by zaroth on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:04PM (#20733777)
Obviously, they get a cut of App Store revenue. Android is worth many billions of dollars to Google, and having quality apps on the store is an essential part of the ecosystem.

To be sure, this is Google failing in a way that they should care about, and likely do care about, but failing none-the-less.

The reason is because their culture will not allow them to succeed in these types of human interactions. And there is no doubt that that culture is poisonous and will ultimately bite them hard, on Android, on Search, and I think most of all on YouTube.

IMO, this will eventually cost them billions of dollars, whether it is in lost revenue due to apps that are no longer on the store, end users switching to alternative products, or hostile legislation and fines.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by mavelikara on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:22PM (#20733863)
> this will eventually cost them billions of dollars

It does - in Google Cloud. This reputation of automated customer service played a non-trivial part in the initial lukewarm response enterprise customers gave. The Eng teams at potential customers looked at the way Google treated their marketing teams and steered clear from Google's - sometimes superior - offerings.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by ufmace on Monday August 19, 2019 @12:17AM (#20734848)
Yup. For whatever Amazon's other faults may be, they will do stuff like assign actual human salespeople to your account, who have the time to listen to you and the authority to do things. You can create problem tickets for their services, which go to skilled engineers somewhere that have the time and authority to run down and address any weirdness you encounter with their services. Plus they keep even their old services online for a sort-of ridiculous amount of time to keep up with slow-moving corporate update processes.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by wutbrodo on Monday August 19, 2019 @01:51AM (#20735216)
Is this not the case for GCP? I recently switched to a company running on GCP and I don't have tons of exposure to our infra, but from what I've seen, GCP reps are VERY hands-on. Even in my non-infra role, I've been exposed to several different instances of them being hands on: in setting us up, in discussing our resource needs (we're a very heavy GPU compute customer), in tracking down issues (even when the problem is likely on our end).
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by ufmace on Monday August 19, 2019 @10:28AM (#20738029)
I don't actually know - I haven't used it myself. I've read a few comments in various places suggesting that GCP support is as nonexistent as the support for other Google services. I think somebody said they were hosting their whole company's data and services on GCP, and their entire company's account was killed because supposedly some malicious activity was detected. No details of what the activity was or why it was thought to be malicious, just poof, all of your servers and data gone, and nobody you can talk to about it.

It's possible that was misleading or they've improved since then, I don't know. Your claim that they do have quality support for corporate accounts is an interesting point on the other side though.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by wutbrodo on Monday August 19, 2019 @09:00PM (#20743025)
Yea I wouldn't take my experience as too dispositive: I gather that my relatively small company punches significantly above their weight in terms of compute needs, and I only have relatively tangential exposure to our interactions with GCP. It's just that those tangential data points have all happened to point in the direction of robust and responsive support.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by mavelikara on Monday August 19, 2019 @02:55PM (#20740634)
They now do. Especially under TK I expect this to improve. But the reputation cost Google much in the initial days of the GCP.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by bsder on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:49PM (#20733998)
> It does - in Google Cloud.

More than that, I suspect.

I, personally, will NOT allow my team to use any Google service, API, etc. for business purposes as it can be summarily revoked. Microsoft and Amazon can do this too, but it seems like the probability is much lower.

I imagine I am not alone.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by pdonis on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:09PM (#20733800)
> this will eventually cost them billions of dollars

It might, but that problem, if you think it's a problem, is not fixable by Google providing better service to developers, because better service to developers would prevent their current business model for apps from scaling, and without scaling it won't make them money.

> their culture will not allow them to succeed in these types of human interactions

Their culture might be the immediate cause, but I think the root cause is the economics of the business model they have chosen. The only way to fix that would be to choose a different business model, and the obvious alternate business model would be to sell their services like search, maps, gmail, play store, etc. directly to their users, making their users into customers. But I don't think that option is open to them at this point, and it might not be open to anyone without a huge disruption of the entire industry.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by kevinyew on Sunday August 18, 2019 @07:59PM (#20733755)
Except they get a cut of app sales and in app purchases, so this doesn't make any sense. Why would they bother running the Play Store at all if it didn't make them money?
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by pdonis on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:05PM (#20733778)
> they get a cut of app sales and in app purchases

Yes, but that doesn't make developers their customers. It makes developers their business partners, and business partners in a hugely asymmetric relationship, since there are zillons of developers and would-be developers and only one of Google.

Basically, an individual developer is negligible to them because there are always more where that one came from. So they have no incentive to handle particular edge cases with particular developers; they just remove that developer and another one takes their place. Most developers don't throw edge cases at them, so this strategy works fine for them.

Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by zwily on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:06PM (#20733782)
They know that whatever algorithm is used here will fire off some false positives. They also believe that paying people to review in order to correct the false positives is not worth it.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by redwall_hp on Sunday August 18, 2019 @09:46PM (#20734254)
If you pay for an app, you are a Google Play customer. They are acting as a retailer, purchasing software from a vendor and distributing it to you as a markup. The developer of the software is the "third party" in the transaction.
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by zaksoup on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:36PM (#20733936)
I'm not sure why there are downvotes on this comment. It's pretty clear this is the case - what Google Products have dedicated account executives that give you their phone number? Ads and Cloud. The two direct-buy relationships you can have with Google. Even G Suite doesn't merit dedicated CSMs until you're fortune 100...
Re:Open letter from an Android developer to the Google Play ... by lern_too_spel on Sunday August 18, 2019 @10:40PM (#20734475)
I once made the mistake of renting a movie from Google Play Movies. I am a customer. The "my purchases" page just shows an error, so I can't find the titles I own or have rented. There is no place to report this except in a user to user forum.