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Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by ASinclair on Friday August 16, 2019 @01:39PM (#20717509)
The company has a very generous mental health policy. 25 free counseling sessions a year. They're supposed to be for short term use. However, I heard a separate complaint that none of the available counselors were African American and thus wouldn't understand the employee's specific issue.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by lisper on Friday August 16, 2019 @02:43PM (#20718248)
As someone who has been through counseling, and with two immediate family members who are professional psychologists, I can tell you that "understanding someone's specific issue" doesn't matter nearly as much as one might think. People have this idea that the counseling process is analogous to a medical procedure: you go to the doctor, describe the problem, they diagnose you, and prescribe an intervention. That is not generally how it works. There is a little bit of that on occasion, but mostly counseling works simply through the process of rendering your feelings into words in the presence of another human being who is listening to you but in whom you are not emotionally invested and who is not emotionally invested in you. That, in and of itself, turns out to be tremendously helpful. (The same mechanism is in play in other kinds of human activities as well, like book clubs, writers groups, or religious gatherings.) You don't have to be black to learn how to provide this service to someone who is.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by qzx_pierri on Friday August 16, 2019 @04:15PM (#20719271)
I agree. I'm a black man, and my counselor is an older white woman. She completely changed my life, helped me build self esteem, and taught me why doing what the ex-Google employee does is a bad idea (reading tons of negative news, and stressing myself out over issues bigger than I am). There are certain things that she can't relate to, but the root of all emotional healing is becoming a better person overall.

It sounds like this guy spends way too much time on Twitter/Tumblr (Twitter is essentially Tumblr circa 2013 since everyone left their porn blogs behind). America is definitely racist still. I experience suspect shit from white people all the time, but I don't let it bother me because I don't have the power to change anyone. It sounds like this guy doesn't realize that you can't live a healthy life (mentally) and non-ironically be radical about certain social issues IRL.

> Where are you headed, [REDACTED]?” another teammate asked with an innocuous timbre as the restof our pod curiously awaited my response.

He even acknowledges the fact that they weren't purposely being mean or anything, they just don't understand how the ex-Googler is feeling. I'm not taking up for his co-workers, but I bet if he spoke up in a chill way, they would've corrected themselves and explained what they really meant. But instead, the ex-Googler drops his head, leaves the office, and writes a slander essay like a passive aggressive little [redacted].

To wrap this up: Yes, there are some fucked up cops out there who are shooting unarmed black men, but the majority of cops aren't terrible people, and expecting privileged white people to understand us is counter-productive. White people will NEVER understand how it feels to be a black man in this country, and it's not worth trying to explain it. All we can do is be the best we can be, and hope the kindness, smiles, and compassion are reciprocated. If not, fuck em.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by ggggtez on Friday August 16, 2019 @05:46PM (#20720025)
I think that's a healthy outlook. It's not your job to educate your coworkers. Though, I think people should feel ok discussing it. The idea that white people would "never" understand is a little bit much, but it's not going to be an easy conversation. This is the type of thing that you are only going to change minds about by methodical teaching. Honestly, I don't recommend it, unless this is a friend of yours that you want to maintain for a long time, and think it's worth investing the effort for the long term health of the friendship.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by repolfx on Saturday August 17, 2019 @04:58AM (#20722963)
Your post started out rather sympathetically, but I find I lack sympathy by the end. You rage against how racist you think white people are, a belief you justify with absurd generalisations - white people are "privileged", they will "NEVER" understand (not even if they try and you talk to them about it), and so on.

I have to say something deeply unpopular here - yes, I know in America maybe it's different, but there's only racist people I've ever met have been people engaging in this kind of casual racism against whites. I never saw the opposite. Most accusations of it turn out to be bad statistical assumptions, like "percentage by race of people experiencing a bad outcome differ from the general population, so it must be racism" - ignoring all other factors.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by lisper on Saturday August 17, 2019 @03:10AM (#20722648)
> White people will NEVER understand how it feels to be a black man in this country

Personally, I'd prefer to change things so that "how it feels to be black in this country" is no longer a thing that needs to be understood. Yeah, I know this isn't going to happen in my lifetime, but even a white boy can dream.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by dragonwriter on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:06PM (#20718532)
> As someone who has been through counseling, and with two immediate family members who are professional psychologists, I can tell you that "understanding someone's specific issue" doesn't matter nearly as much as one might think.

That probably depends on what kind of “counselor” is involved; the same term can be used to refer to a variety of to licensed mental health professionals or to people who are basically peer counselors with minimal specialized education. The latter is relying very heavily on their own lives experience, so it clearly matters.

Even for the professionals, psychological safety of client with the counselor is going to be a significant factor, and someone who is coming from a place of perceived pervasive hostility and neglect from outside of their own racial group that leaves them metaphorically curled up in a ball of fear and silence around people outside their race is going to be hard for someone who triggers that reaction in them to help.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by SolaceQuantum on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:06PM (#20718530)
However, this relies on the ability of the person issuing the treatment to provide the appropriate amount of response to the person making the problems into words. If I talked about my (hypothetical) child abuse to a psychologist and the psychologist began engaging in therapeutic techniques to normalize the abuse I would be extremely offended and likely come out worse for wear.

If I, a person of color, am having emotional difficulty processing the anxiety I feel about police persecution after being exposed to information that my race is being disproportionately persecuted, I really need a healthcare professional that (at the very least) has knowledge on when to engage in trying to direct me from my anxieties vs acknowledging that I am experiencing a normal amount of anxiety for the situation. Part of this may in fact be wanting a healthcare professional who is of my race because I have been harmed in the past by professionals who did not share my race practicing inappropriate treatments on me.

Similarly, there are plenty of female patients that ask for a female doctor, even in non-therapy medicine, because plenty of medication, illnesses, etc. show differently for women.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by lisper on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:10PM (#20718590)
That's a fair point, but I'd argue that gender differences and racial differences are, well, different. There really are salient biological differences between males and females, whereas the differences between blacks and whites, while real, are purely social constructs. If you judge a prospective counselor by the color of their skin you are IMHO part of the problem.

This is not to say that you shouldn't judge a counselor by their behavior after you've started working with them. But I think it's possible for a person with black skin to be just as insensitive to the concerns of black people as someone with white skin, e.g. Clarence Thomas.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by mehrdadn on Friday August 16, 2019 @04:51PM (#20719575)
> If you judge a prospective counselor by the color of their skin you are IMHO part of the problem.

There's a rather small but critical lack of nuance in your sentiment.

The idea isn't that you judge the person because of their skin color. Nobody is saying being white or black makes you a worse or better counselor or person. The idea is that you merely judge the likelihood that the person will be able to relate to you about something in your own personal life. There's nothing "problematic" about making that kind of judgment. It doesn't need to be justified or rational to anybody else. It's your personal life that you're looking for someone to open up to. Nobody else has any right to anything in your personal life, and you have every right and responsibility to make it better by your own criteria. If there's any problem here, it's the sentiment that other people have a right to dictate whom you should and shouldn't involve in your personal life.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by SolaceQuantum on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:14PM (#20718636)
"There really are salient biological differences between males and females, whereas the differences between blacks and whites, while real, are purely social constructs."

But doesn't that mean race can potentially become extremely important when the treatment is via a form of structural socialization?

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by dragonwriter on Friday August 16, 2019 @04:44PM (#20719510)
> If you judge a prospective counselor by the color of their skin you are IMHO part of the problem.

An emotional barrier that is part of the problem for which a person is seeking treatment:

(1) is not a judgement, and

(2) indisputably is part of the problem.

But, in any case, whether either or both of those are true or not doesn't change the fact that it is a real issue impacting the likely treatment outcomes that is sensitive to whether the counselor is in the group triggering the negative response or not.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by rictic on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:00PM (#20718469)
In my experience, if the patient does not have a certain level of rapport with the counselor, the effectiveness is greatly reduced because neither party can be confident that they're effectively communicating. Communicating across cultural barriers is more difficult and lower bandwidth.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by lisper on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:05PM (#20718525)
See this comment and my response to it:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20718444

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by voxl on Friday August 16, 2019 @02:47PM (#20718299)
Nothing you said is relevant if the person will refuse council if they percieve it to be from someone who won't be able to understand their issues.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by jldugger on Friday August 16, 2019 @02:59PM (#20718449)
But it is ironic that someone would seek therapy to cope with a racist world, and but refuse service based on the race of the therapist.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by lisper on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:03PM (#20718500)
Well, sure, but that's on them. The belief that a counselor will not be able to help you, for whatever reason, will generally be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I see no salient difference between a black person deciding that a white person can't help them because they are white, and a white person deciding that a black person can't help them because they are black. To me, both of those positions are equally odious. One thing I've learned first-hand over the years is that you can't help someone who won't help themselves.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by SolaceQuantum on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:07PM (#20718548)
Genuine question:

Are women who have been abused by men odious for seeking female therapists?

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by reitanqild on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:55PM (#20719064)
FWIW lisper mentioned that in another subthread at about the same time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20718590
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by nostrademons on Friday August 16, 2019 @02:58PM (#20718444)
You do need to trust and have a rapport with the counselor, though. While it's true that counseling is more about fixing yourself than having someone fix you, the process doesn't work if you aren't willing to open up in the first place.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by lisper on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:05PM (#20718517)
> You do need to trust and have a rapport with the counselor, though.

Yes, but you need to trust them as a professional, not as a personal confidante who shares your life experience.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by ALittleLight on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:47PM (#20718978)
Business idea: Machine learning drives a realistic video and audio avatar of a human therapist to ask occasional "How does that make you feel" type questions.

As part of the session the therapist asks you to rate a few different categories of your mental life (e.g. "How content are you with your life/relationships/family/future on a scale of 1 to 5?) The ratings then can be used for data to develop better questions and techniques and marketing claims (people with 1 or more Virtual Therapy seasons a week experience an X% improvement in indicators of mental health).

Subscription model: 10 bucks a month gets two one hour virtual therapy sessions a week.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by vageli on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:53PM (#20719050)
This concept is explored in ELIZA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_(video_game)

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by dllthomas on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:54PM (#20719056)
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by hindsightbias on Saturday August 17, 2019 @01:12AM (#20722227)
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by Semaphor on Friday August 16, 2019 @04:01PM (#20719135)
From my personal experience, I can agree with "personal experience" not mattering as much. But on the other hand, I received counseling as a teenager and my first counselor wasn’t a good fit for me at all (while my dad loved him) and I switched to another. I can imagine a black person having a harder time connecting to a non-black psychiatrist.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by hos234 on Friday August 16, 2019 @04:34PM (#20719440)
I disagree. I personally get cheesed off with psychologists and counselors who I don't feel a connect with. Imho best one's are those that know what is involved in creating an empathetic connection. Sport psychologists are much more interesting to me in that sense cause they can't pretend not to be invested in the person or the team winning.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by _nhynes on Friday August 16, 2019 @02:44PM (#20718265)
> none of the available counselors were African American

Respectfully, are you sure you didn’t mean “Black?” “African American” doesn’t accurately capture e.g., Caribbean and Latin American identities.

Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by ASinclair on Friday August 16, 2019 @02:57PM (#20718430)
Maybe Black is a better choice in this case? Sorry, I'm a bit ignorant as to the precise nuances of identity that this person felt were important here.
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by _nhynes on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:42PM (#20718942)
Sorry I didn’t mean to phrase it as directed at you. It was supposed to be a general statement with context. I suppose I could also do to watch my own language :)
Re:Google Employee Writes Memo About ‘The Burden of Being Bl... by cellularmitosis on Friday August 16, 2019 @02:57PM (#20718427)
The specific issues the OP referenced were police brutality in the US against blacks, so I would assume he specifically meant African American.