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A comment on A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his name and credit rating. Parent comment

Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by rtkwe on Monday August 12, 2019 @10:50AM (#20675892)
Yeah it's tricky because the US is a bit shy about national IDs for vague reasons that seem loosely associated with anti-authoritarian reasons and distrust of government. Sure we can't be forced to 'show us your papers' because they don't physically exist but the government knows who 99% of citizens are if they wanted to work at it even a bit and it's not like states are going to be the bastions of fighting back and they do have IDs pretty much everyone gets.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by pault on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:17PM (#20676835)
There is a significant percentage of the US population that believes any attempt at a new national ID is the mark of the beast from the biblical book of Revelations. I shit you not. These are the same people that would consider a war in the middle East to be a good thing, because it means Jesus is coming to usher in the millennial reign of heaven on Earth.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by toomuchtodo on Monday August 12, 2019 @10:51AM (#20675912)
Indeed. No one cries foul on a passport or driver's license, but a national ID card is so draconian /s

Maybe if you converted passports to smartcards, and then slowly turned it into a national ID you could make this work.

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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by Bartweiss on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:10AM (#20676107)
> No one cries foul on a passport or driver's license, but a national ID card is so draconian

Fair point, but it's worth noting that lots of people don't have either document. Hence, say, the voter ID law fight: many people genuinely have no standard identity document except SSN.

One other aside is that driver's licenses are a remarkably bad identification document. Even plenty of bars won't take out of state driver's licenses, or will outright declare real ones to be fake. And dealing with government offices, I've had several iterations of "that state's license ID has a different number of digits, so I can't use it in our system".

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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by toomuchtodo on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:12AM (#20676118)
Yes, I agree entirely. Which is why the cost must be driven down for obtaining a national ID card, and you should be able to obtain one as easily as going to to a DMV. Someone in this thread suggesting using the postal service for such a task, which I would be in favor of with adequate controls in place for safeguarding the PII of citizens.

> One other aside is that driver's licenses are a remarkably bad identification document.

This is changing with REAL ID; all states are either compliant with new ID issuance and doc standards or have received an extension. https://www.dhs.gov/real-id

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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by rtkwe on Monday August 12, 2019 @01:21PM (#20677594)
Yeah the only way I'd ever say election ID laws were ok and no discriminatory attempts to shape the electorate would be if it were accompanied by a) a massive expensive push to ensure everyone had and ID (mobile DMVs going and registering people who can't get out to an office, free licenses, etc) and automatic voter registration (because if you're going to say everyone needs to have this to vote I damn well be able to vote with just the ID).
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by bonzini on Monday August 12, 2019 @04:19PM (#20679520)
> plenty of bars won't take out of state driver's licenses, or will outright declare real ones to be fake

Italians that have an id card predating electronic id are routinely bumped off American bars because to them it looks like it's just a piece of paper with a photo stitched on top. Yet, identity theft is a problem in the US and not in Italy...

In fact, even though that id card actually is relatively easy to forget, it does have some watermarks and special government stamps. In fact, it's probably easier to fake an electronic id card with a piece of plastic, if you know no one is going to try using the smartcard functionality.

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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by rootusrootus on Monday August 12, 2019 @10:58AM (#20675979)
There is a passport card with a chip, but it is only usable at land crossings. Ostensibly because the world has agreed on what a passport is.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by reaperducer on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:16AM (#20676171)
the US is a bit shy about national IDs for vague reasons that seem loosely associated with anti-authoritarian reasons and distrust of government.

It's called "history." And as they say, those who don't learn from it are doomed to repeat it.

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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by roywiggins on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:59AM (#20676638)
There's really no evidence that the USG doesn't already have everything it needs to oppress $GROUP if it wants to.

No federal IDs did absolutely nothing to inhibit Japanese internment. The federal government has vast powers already.

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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by Wowfunhappy on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:53AM (#20676560)
But aren't social security numbers effectively being used as national IDs right now? The fact that that they suck just makes fraud easier.

I don't see how modern society can function without some form of universal authentication. Alternately, if you live in a forest and don't need or want to participate in the financial system, I'm all for making a hypothetical national ID opt-in.

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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by rtkwe on Monday August 12, 2019 @01:17PM (#20677549)
SSNs aren't really an ID they're an ID number, without looking at other databases and traces left there's only really a name associated with each and no biometric data so there's no real way to confirm that the person you're looking at is actually the person assigned XXX-XX-XXXX.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by bigwavedave on Monday August 12, 2019 @03:52PM (#20679252)
Which is what makes it such a huge problem- they're treated as ID's whether they're supposed to or not. Regardless of original intent, regardless of what you or the government or anyone else says, they are treated as ID's by the vast majority of business and organizations. That's the whole point of this discussion and why it's such a problem.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by toomuchtodo on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:31AM (#20676327)
States give access to their driver's license databases to federal authorities. Any safety you perceive due to the lack of a national ID system is an illusion.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by criddell on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:02PM (#20676669)
A lot of opposition to national IDs is based in religion.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by UnFleshedOne on Monday August 12, 2019 @01:10PM (#20677468)
Funny thing is, in Canada, SSN analog is called SIN.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by goodcanadian on Monday August 12, 2019 @02:51PM (#20678588)
Social Insurance Number, for the curious.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by souterrain on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:18PM (#20676842)
I was unaware that King George III was such a proponent of national ID cards.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by ceejayoz on Monday August 12, 2019 @11:31AM (#20676329)
Those who over-apply historical lessons in an incorrect context may serve as a future historical lesson in mistakes made, though.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by souterrain on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:21PM (#20676882)
I’m quite certain the US government demands “show us your papers” of many individuals within 100 miles of the US border on a daily basis.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by refurb on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:29PM (#20676961)
Only if you're an immigrant. If you're a US citizen, you don't need to provide any proof.
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by mattnewton on Monday August 12, 2019 @01:07PM (#20677441)
Well, actually you need to prove you are a citizen if you fit the profile of an immigrant within 100 miles of the border. And if you don't do so to their satisfaction the border patrol will detain you indefinitely. Yes, in America. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2019/07/22/dalla...
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by refurb on Monday August 12, 2019 @04:55PM (#20679901)
If you state you are a US citizen, the onus is on them to prove you aren’t.

There is no law saying that Us citizens have to carry identification pricing they are citizens.

And yes, if they have reasonable suspicion that you’re lying, they can detain you.

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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by toomuchtodo on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:46PM (#20677201)
Constitutional rights are as it relates to the fourth amendment are a bit fuzzy within 100 miles of the US border. Even as a citizen, you'll need to provide proof or sit in lockup until CBP is satisfied you belong in the country. The ability to provide oral attestation of citizenship was deprecated by the justice department many years ago.

https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by pbhjpbhj on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:41PM (#20677109)
How do you prove you don't need to provide proof? Or do the police have to prove that you do?
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Re:A Bloomberg reporter’s account of trying to get back his ... by rtkwe on Monday August 12, 2019 @01:26PM (#20677667)
Nope if they think you should have proof and you don't you can be detained and there's no strict limits on how long you can be detained it's essentially till they're satisfied you've proven your citizenship.
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