If you honestly believe the harming/killing of animals and plants are equivalent, come by my place later. I've got some hedges in my front yard and a dog. I'll get out the hedge clippers and we can demonstrate there's no real difference between cutting parts off of a bush and a mammal.

All that demonstrates is that mammals can recognize each other’s suffering. It’s entirely possible that when a plant is killed, there is also suffering, but it’s so foreign to us we can’t recognize it.

Sure, it's _possible_. But we absolutely no evidence that it happens based on what we know (albeit very little) about the subject. And we have good reasons to believe it's not happening: plants lack the brain structures and processing power believed to be required, no evolutionary advantage, lack of motility.

Philosophically, it fails as an Appeal to Ignorance. Practically, it fails for a few reasons. Many of the plants we consume don't need to be killed and have evolved to expect and depend on our consumption of them. Additionally, the animals we eat need to eat plants. So anyone with a genuine concern for the suffering of plants would immediately forego the consumption of animal products.

An appeal to ignorance requires to me make an assertion. Saying something is _possible_ is not an assertion.

I concur however, that if one has a genuine concern for plant suffering then only ethical course of action is suicide.

Yes, _asserting_ something is possible is an assertion. And if your only intention was really to just point out the possibility of it and not suggest it as a likely alternative, you're not adding anything to the conversation. But it seemed to pretty clear be the latter.

It is, unfortunately the majority of plants die at the hands of livestock. To reduce the needless killing of plants, improve your health and the environment is surprise.... to eat less or no meat.

>unfortunately the majority of plants die at the hands of livestock

Exactly, so if we kill the livestock and eat it, then less plants will suffer.

Livestock don't usually have hands but you get the point.

Except the consumption of many vegetables/fruits IS the purpose, in order to disperse its seeds, no?

Right? At least a cow has a chance to run away. But a carrot - it’s stuck in the ground, no legs, no sensory apparatus. It doesn’t have a chance.

I know this is going to get downvoted, but...

"...these are the cries of the carrots, for tomorrow is the harvest time, and for them, it is the apocalypse!"

Plants use chemicals as defense. For instance, take caffeine which is a neurotoxin.

What is wrong with death?

Its not death that is the issue. It is pain and suffering.

Many biologists are not convinced that other animals experience suffering in the same way that we do. There was recently a thread about whether insects feel pain on HN.

This is the result of the special status accorded to humans. One side of it is that we are the only animals capable of moral reasoning and so we should abstain from eating meat even if other animals do it, because we are uniquely placed to understand the harm it causes. The other side of it is that we are justified by being special among all animals to treat animals in the way we do.

Both sides of the coin start from the belief that we are not like other animals. This is obviously a very anthropocentric view: we, ourselves, think we're special. Most likely, no other animal does.

I believe you are being downvoted because this seems more like a 12 year old’s attempt to be clever than it does a genuine attempt to contribute to the conversation.

If you are in fact twelve... well, stop it anyway.

Thanks Rod, I wasn't asking why I was being down-voted though.

I'm sorry you have been downvoted for an honest comparison. Plants and animals are all alive. Almost all life sustains itself via consuming other life. This is 100% natural.