News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by dazhbog on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @03:30AM (#20572338)
Its all fine until you have to explain to your loved ones how to read domains and the difference between an email link with random-server-name.paypal.com vs. www.paypal.random-name.com

If we remove meta data like this from everyday browsing maybe it will be harder for people to even grasp the idea of how domain names work?

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by creshal on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @04:20AM (#20572555)
Google doesn't want you to know that, Google wants you to rely on GMail to get rid of all emails Google doesn't want you to read, and rely on the Google Safe Browsing Database to decide what websites are in Google's interest for you to view. Knowing domains is also harmful to Google, you're supposed to trust Google's search to find websites (and helpful advertisements for competing sites that bribe Google better, now that they neutered adblockers).
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by onion2k on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @04:03AM (#20572480)
Telling people to look for https:// as a way to indicate that they're secure isn't good enough. There's nothing stopping a malicious party applying an SSL certificate to www.paypal.random-name.com. Browsers need to inform users based on actual information that they have (eg the SSL cert, reports of malicious domains, etc) and display that to the user.

Essentially Google know more about the state of a website than a user can learn from the domain alone, and they should display that to the user. Once that's happening the various parts of the domain are less important. The downside of this is that it increases Chrome users reliance on Google.

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by notahacker on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @09:01AM (#20574045)
Telling users to carefully type https://www.paypal.com is somewhat less user friendly but a lot less phisher friendly than the "just type the company name, the other bits don't matter and the browser will find the right site for you and tell you it's secure" pattern.

Paypal has good SEO, but not every shopping cart does, and its not like Google are manually vetting the content like AOL keywords did...

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by cm2187 on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @04:09AM (#20572511)
So basically a brave new word where google will decide what is a good and a bad website. Great.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by onion2k on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @05:36AM (#20572853)
My preferred solution would be an open API standard that companies could use to provide independent information about domains, that browsers could use to pull data about domains, and that companies who index the web could use to update whether or not they trust domains. That way anyone could set up as a source of information about whether or not a domain is trustworthy.

I'm not in a position to actually do it though, and Google are (for themselves, without sharing the API), so for now that's the best we've got. Maybe someone who has the resources to compete with Google will step up.

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by chii on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @08:57AM (#20574020)
> open API standard that companies could use to provide independent information about domains ... anyone could set up as a source of information about whether or not a domain is trustworthy.

and how is a user supposed to know who to trust for this information, if there are multiple sources?

At the root, the problem is one of verification - that who you are communicating with is who they claim to be. At some level, there needs to be trust in one entity as a definitive source (that the site you're looking at is indeed created by the business that the site is claiming to be representing). There has to be some level of trust somewhere...

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by onion2k on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @10:03AM (#20574492)
and how is a user supposed to know who to trust for this information, if there are multiple sources?

They could choose the provider they trust most. Which, for the majority, would probably be Google.

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by amfsn on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @04:21AM (#20572559)
That's what they wanted when they pushed Let's Encrypt. https meant something before, since a certificate was expensive and required proof of identity. Yes, those methods weren't infallible, but they were good enough. Now we've lost that with free https.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by tialaramex on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @05:32AM (#20572840)
None of this is correct.

Certificates weren't expensive before Let's Encrypt, several outfits offered free certificates, especially on a "trial" basis that would be adequate for criminals even if it was largely useless to legitimate users.

But expensive certificate were, and still are, available to those with the Apple mindset. DigiCert will sell you a certificate for $218. Lasts 12 months.

And you're probably thinking: Right, that's a _proper_ certificate, that'll assure me of who bought it, and it comes with true security and all this amazing stuff. Nope, that's the same DV assurance that Let's Encrypt gives away, except DigiCert gets $218 of your money, and why not?

If there's a guy wants to buy one glass of water from me for $100 who am I to insist drinking water is free?

Anyway, no, certificates did not require "proof of identity" prior to Let's Encrypt, in fact back then they only required that the CA use "Any other method" a term of art in the rules that meant the CA could use its own best judgement (perhaps clouded by commercial considerations) to decide what was enough to be sure you controlled example.com before issuing you an example.com certificate.

_After_ Let's Encrypt, and with substantial input _from_ key Let's Encrypt people this was reformed to the Ten Blessed Methods (there are not actually ten of them today, but I like that name and it seems to have stuck) in which there are explicit methods defined for how a CA must check that you control the DNS names you want certificates for.

You are living in an all too common fantasy world. A world where you needlessly spend more money to achieve less security because you don't want to be confronted with facts.

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by cm2187 on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @04:26AM (#20572577)
EV certs required that. DV certs never provided that sort of security.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by amfsn on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @04:36AM (#20572611)
Of course they did. When you paid with your card they knew your identity. Unless you were carding which is a pretty serious crime.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by logifail on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @05:09AM (#20572737)
> When you paid with your card they knew your identity.

Who's the "they" in that sentence? As it stands, a certificate reseller knows that the Paypal account "[email protected]" paid for a SSL certificate for "www.unrelatedcompany.TLD"

The certificate itself tells you nothing about who paid for it - it doesn't even tell you which email account was used to confirm some level of association with the unrelatedcompany.TLD domain.

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by amfsn on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @05:20AM (#20572786)
Then PayPal has the data and LE can follow the trail. Because it's about LE being able to tell who actually bought the certificate, telling me end users can't do that is kinda moving the goalposts.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by pilsetnieks on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @05:30AM (#20572831)
There are certificate authorities all over the world, and many of them not in jurisdictions that would share data with your law enforcement.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by logifail on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @09:15AM (#20574149)
Q1: What kinds of serious crimes involve law inforcement needing to chase up who's behind the purchase of a SSL certificate, anyway?

Q2: Can't the bad guys just buy a pre-paid debit card with cash if they're that desperate to cover their tracks?

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by drivingmenuts on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @04:12AM (#20572519)
We're already there - what we really need is for Google to back the hell off some of their gatekeeping decisions.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by vntok on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @04:39AM (#20572625)
Well your example issue would precisely be solved by only displaying the domain name to users.

Paypal.com vs random-Name.com: much easier to distinguish.

Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by masswerk on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @07:00AM (#20573252)
However, even in this particular edge case, why hide that there's a prefix (while you, the browser vendor, were able to put up some kind of indication for this with ease)? Generally, highlight, but don't conceal.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by Avamander on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @09:02AM (#20574057)
It's already hard to explain what an URL is and what they mean, 99.9999% of people using the internet do not already grasp how domain names work and unfortunately or fortunately this time the tech-savy 0.0001% lost.
Re:“We plan to hide ‘https’ scheme and subdomain ‘www’ in Ch... by keymone on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @03:49AM (#20572418)
domain name is not metadata and the problem you're describing is more with mail clients and html emails than anybody else.