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Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by joe_the_user on Monday July 29, 2019 @03:12PM (#20558256)
Well, if the majority of a community are renters, politician A's pitch theoretically would fall short also, compared to "elect me and I will create lots of affordable housing, rent will fall or stay stable and you will get more of your most valuable possession - disposable income"

The problem is even in that situation, the money of the home owner and apartment house owner speaks more loudly than the interests of the apartment dwellers.

Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by AnthonyMouse on Monday July 29, 2019 @05:21PM (#20559596)
The problem is what actually happens when there are a lot of renters is that politicians promise the existing renters they'll impose rent control, which is basically a cross-subsidy that transfers money from newer renters to older ones while increasing average rents. Tomorrow's new renters don't live in the jurisdiction yet, so they can't vote against it, and enough of a minority of existing renters can be convinced they'll come out ahead that way that when you combine them with the minority of land owners they achieve 51% of the vote.

Then the land owners can push through whatever price-exploding rules they want as long as they can maintain that 51% by promising the Judas tenants that their rents will stay the same.

Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by shadowoflight on Monday July 29, 2019 @05:58PM (#20559905)
I don't really have anything constructive to add to this conversation, but I wanted to drop a comment here to let you know how brilliant the term "Judas tenants" is - I am definitely going to find a way to use that (or something similar) in conversation on occasion.
Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by nradov on Monday July 29, 2019 @04:02PM (#20558744)
That doesn't accurately characterize voter motivations. Many long-term renters also oppose loosening zoning rules due to quality of life concerns (traffic, noise, crime, pollution). It's not always just a money issue.

Furthermore, many renters believe that if more housing is built it will only be luxury housing that they couldn't afford anyway. Sure basic economics tells us that increasing supply ought to drive down prices for everyone, but at the individual level it's tough for people to make the connection.

Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by parineum on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @03:38AM (#20562828)
>Many long-term renters also oppose loosening zoning rules due to quality of life concerns (traffic, noise, crime, pollution). It's not always just a money issue.

Most people who moved into a neighborhood because they liked it don't want it to change. Enjoying where you live gets you labelled as a NIMBY though. It's easier to dismiss people if you give them a sweet nickname I guess.

> Sure basic economics tells us that increasing supply ought to drive down prices for everyone, but at the individual level it's tough for people to make the connection.

It should be telling that the "housing crisis" only exists in the most desirable places to live. I don't believe there is a practical amount of supply that can be built to satisfy the demand for housing in these places. The supply of upper middle class people who want to live in SV, Manhattan or San Diego is more than enough to make sure the poor can never afford it. In fact, the only people I ever see overly concerned with it are the middle class who are just on the cusp of affordability.

There's no housing crisis in Blythe.

Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by rhacker on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @11:38AM (#20575294)
I mean we're pretty much all going to want to live as close as possible to the mountain of gold that is the jobs in those areas, poor or rich. A poorer person can more easily get a replacement job in SV than anywhere else. In fact when it was still somewhat affordable (I've moved away from SV) I've had a friend that was just a terrible employee, they couldn't hold a job - but they were NEVER unemployed, they stayed with some hotel or waitress position for about a month - got fired, hired again somewhere else before you could blink. Her husband, after living there long enough eventually got a software QA position and they finally moved up - poor to middle overnight. Mountain of gold.
Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by bluGill on Monday July 29, 2019 @04:29PM (#20559061)
In fact more housing will always be luxury. In 30 years it will be old and affordable, but only if the rich who buy new all the time move on which they will only do if they are allowed to build something new that is more luxurious.
Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by joe_the_user on Monday July 29, 2019 @04:18PM (#20558919)
That doesn't accurately characterize voter motivations. Many long-term renters also oppose loosening zoning rules due to quality of life concerns (traffic, noise, crime, pollution). It's not always just a money issue.

Well, the question is how many of the host of worries US voters express (fear of XYZ evil-doers) are effectively just devices conveniently maintained and manipulated by media, consults and other moneyed interests.

Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by qarlow on Monday July 29, 2019 @05:06PM (#20559461)
> Sure basic economics tells us that increasing supply ought to drive down prices for everyone, but at the individual level it's tough for people to make the connection.

Basic economics tells us that more supply lowers prices if everything else remains the same. Which it won't if the area becomes more popular.

"The assumption behind a demand curve or a supply curve is that no relevant economic factors, other than the product’s price, are changing. Economists call this assumption ceteris paribus, a Latin phrase meaning 'other things being equal'. If all else is not held equal, then the laws of supply and demand will not necessarily hold."

https://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/microec...

Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by jaredklewis on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @12:28AM (#20562143)
But even in the case where the area becomes more popular, a larger supply will result in lower prices than if the area had become more popular and did not increase supply.
Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by qarlow on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @07:08AM (#20563709)
Not necessarily and not from an economic perspective. One can argue that, but it depends on how building affects the market. For example by shifting demographics. But even so renters, without rent control, are only interested in the part of the market they can afford where they live. That is, the quantity supplied at their income level. Which is even more susceptible to changes. The assumption people are making about "basic economics" just aren't true. More supply just isn't a solid argument for affordability without supporting evidence, and especially not when it comes to housing.
Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by iguy on Monday July 29, 2019 @05:30PM (#20559650)
Also, people associate neighborhoods in which there is lots of new luxury housing with neighborhoods in which prices rise fast. And they are not wrong, there is a correlation. Nobody builds new luxury housing in dying towns! But the causation is, of course, mostly not from the buildings to the prices.
Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by bradknowles on Monday July 29, 2019 @06:20PM (#20560064)
Or, it would be low-income housing, and who wants /those/ kind of people around, anyway?
Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by lonelappde on Monday July 29, 2019 @10:49PM (#20561715)
Gentrifiers want to live near the culture of low income people (restaurants, bars) while they push low income people out.
Re:The Golden Girls Would Violate Zoning Laws by alexnewman on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @12:28PM (#20566430)
Yea i'd prefer all artists please