> If those same items were excluded with respect to the Chevy Bolt/Volt

Are you talking about the same Bolt? The one where they were estimated to lose $9000 [1] per vehicle sold?

I'm being a bit flippant, but you can't in good faith argue that everyone else is accounting for EV stuff totally normally and only Tesla is doing something different. I expect all those companies are subsidizing the EV production in some way, as they do for all their low-volume cars. The cars that make money are low production high price models (eg, the Lamborghini's and Tesla Roadsters of the world), and the high volume cars (eg all the models (or platforms) that sell 500k+ annually, from Toyota/GM/etc). Model 3 is not quite at this production level yet, though it is close. We'll see from 2Q results tomorrow what the real deal is.

[1] https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-che...

> ...then those cars are also fantastically profitable as well--even more so than any Tesla model.

Not really. Those vehicles all benefit from economies of scale and have much less resistance to produce in those organizations. Beyond that they produce less of them in comparison. While it's easy to lump them into the same bucket Tesla doesn't enjoy some of the freebies the other manufacturers have for rolling pet electric projects. Beyond that none of the manufacturers disclose pure electrics to the street that I'm aware. So I'm not sure how you can make this assertion. Is there data for all three that breaks out those brands electrics P&L?

That's true.. but I'm just comparing tesla with other tesla models. If you were in the market for a leaf, you were probably never considering a model x/s.

But you make a good point.. there are now more luxury electric cars.. and those people are the same people that would buy a model x/s. Perhaps that's also part of why sales for those are lower.

Model X/S sales are dropping for two reasons.

Firstly they haven't been refreshed in forever and secondly they are being cannibalised by the Model 3. The problem for Tesla (and investors) is that their ARPU is now dropping at a time when they need margins.

The Model X is a profoundly stupid car that needs a redesign now. The model S is just old but still a very enjoyable car, a minor face-lift and some love and care to the interiors should do the trick.

Model S&X were both updated in spring 2019.

I think pre-purchase folks "see" two model S cars, and one model X.

(yes, get more familiar with them and the model S breaks down further in regard to AP and motors and battery sizes, but buyers aren't readily familiar with the distinctions until they do quite a bit of research)

Those other EVs are halo loss-leader cars intended to assuage investors that the company is trying to stay abreast of the very chaotic changes that will be coming to the industry.

Tesla makes EVs at profit. Margins have been confirmed, and they are at scale production.

Name me another scale production EV that has been confirmed to be profitable for the company. AFAIK the Bolt and iPace and even the Taycan are/will be toe-dipping projects.

Tesla is ... mostly ... profitable, with the necessary startup investments and vertical scaling complete.

It's really the only profitable EV company, and probably still has 8-10 years of structural advantage over the ICE incumbents.

A good metal/solid state lithium battery tech will help the incumbents close the gap (I think Toyota in particular is gambling on this), and VW seems to be actually walking the walk (to avoid Dieselgate fines) for EV investment.

But it looks to me all the other CEOs are just treading water with investors and analysts to keep their jobs as long as possible, because none of them are of the kind to do the restructuring necessary to make an established brand go all-in on EV.

> leaving out financial items that all other automakers include in unit costing

As far as we know Tesla includes all the same costs in its unit costing including warranty reserves, etc. What are you referring to?

There are feedback loops at play here. Tesla doesn't have to produce the cheapest cars to have an impact on driving down prices. And that's the conundrum for tesla, the dissonance between the social and capitalistic missions: driving down prices means thinner margins means less profitability.