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Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by ebg13 on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:01PM (#20372993)
I love how it's 2019 and installing Debian still requires a PhD in forensic psychology to find the download link.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by userbinator on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:30PM (#20373077)
I think that says more about the attention span of people in 2019 than anything else... below the announcement and description of "what's changed" there is this:

The installation images may be downloaded right now via bittorrent (the recommended method), jigdo, or HTTP; see Debian on CDs for further information.

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by hlieberman on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:10PM (#20373025)
You need the Debian Gotham Needs: https://fiendish.github.io/The-Debian-Gotham-Needs
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by gruez on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:17PM (#20373042)
>ALMOST CERTAINLY THIS ONE

>(x64 testing + non-free firmware)

why testing?

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by ebg13 on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:23PM (#20373062)
Presumably because it's the most pleasant of the options to actually use, not obsolete and not chaotic.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by yakubin on Sunday July 07, 2019 @07:28AM (#20374604)
And without security backports...
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by ebg13 on Sunday July 07, 2019 @10:45AM (#20375325)
Yes, all of the options are bad. Testing is the option that seems least bad for most people.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by diffeomorphism on Sunday July 07, 2019 @03:19AM (#20373945)
If you go to the front page https://www.debian.org/ the download link is in right part of the giant banner. Where can I collect my PhD?
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by Barrin92 on Sunday July 07, 2019 @08:07AM (#20374713)
to be fair that is the free version and a majority of end users will likely need non-free versions with driver support for wi-fi and such, with is relatively annoying to find.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by d00bianista on Sunday July 07, 2019 @08:40AM (#20374807)
What? There is no such thing as 'non-free' Debian. The Debian repositories do contain the 'non-free' section which is used to deliver non-free firmware among other things.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by 0815test on Sunday July 07, 2019 @09:14AM (#20374913)
There are unofficial "non-free" Debian images (both install and live) that contain said non-free firmware, though. And though they're 'unofficial', they may be needed to enable even fairly baseline features on recent hardware.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by layoutIfNeeded on Sunday July 07, 2019 @09:33AM (#20375010)
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by als0 on Sunday July 07, 2019 @11:26AM (#20375541)
Those images are unofficial so no wonder they're hard to find.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by d00bianista on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:10AM (#20390069)
I would not trust any unofficial installer. Luckily many problems can be solved with a USB-Ethernet adapter and later configuration of the systen, since the issue usually lies in exotic network hardware.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by jefurii on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:44PM (#20373115)
Really? What about the "Download Debian 10.0" link in the top right of the home page? Or "The latest stable release of Debian is 10.0" down near the fold? There's also the "Getting Debian" link at the head of one of the columns right in the middle of the page.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by pja on Sunday July 07, 2019 @06:21AM (#20374434)
I agree that the links are there on the front page, but the page as a whole is so busy that they’re hard to spot!

I think the OP is right that the Debian homepage could probably do with some simplification - there’s nothing wrong with having all these options available, but most people are just going to want a CD image they can write to a USB stick these days.

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by ebg13 on Saturday July 06, 2019 @10:28PM (#20373248)
None of those are actually download links. Keep digging. Go past the definition of "free", turn left at the difference between a USB stick and a flexible USB stick, and then the third door from the end of the hall across from the one marked JIGDO MIPSEL will take you into a dark closet filled with laundry and checksums. It may as well be root/.workspace/.garbage.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by vbernat on Saturday July 06, 2019 @11:44PM (#20373452)
The "Download Debian 10.0" is a direct link to the ISO.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by ebg13 on Sunday July 07, 2019 @10:30AM (#20375240)
Which is not the first link one sees for "Getting Debian" on the left-justified front page. In fact the first link one sees for "Getting Debian" is called "Getting Debian", and it takes you into the upside down.

So in order to use your link, first you need to be lucky or wired (because that download doesn't include the wifi firmware that most people will need for the install), and then you need to either already know where not to go or spend time digging around and backtracking.

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by mmphosis on Sunday July 07, 2019 @12:32AM (#20373559)
2.4. Installation Media

    2.4.1. CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/BD-ROM
    2.4.2. USB Memory Stick
    2.4.3. Network
    2.4.4. Hard Disk
    2.4.5. Un*x or GNU system
    2.4.6. Supported Storage Systems
https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch02s04.en.html

I am going to burn a CD-ROM and/or DVD-ROM. It's been a while and feels very retro, I guess I could do this. What is a a BD-ROM?

I am going to use dd to copy the image onto a USB Memory Stick. I've done that.

I am going to do a Network install, no I am not going to do this.

Hard Disk install, this is how I installed it previously. Let me find my notes.

Whether it's CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, USB Memory Stick, or Hard Disk install, the tricky bit is getting the computer to boot the image from that media. And, the tricky part about this is knowing the incantation for GRUB to do this. And, the additional tricky part is the mangled PC EUFI/Secure boot settings. If it's the raspberry pi it's easy: I stick the USB Memory stick in the pi and go. If it's the PC, it's well, as you said: forensics.

I wish that I could download a little install program, and install a fresh OS into one of the many free partitions on the PC, and that the installer would automatically configure GRUB to recognize that new OS without the incantations, and without stomping on other distros.

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by asveikau on Sunday July 07, 2019 @01:06AM (#20373651)
I'm not sure what you mean because I've never had to type anything manually at the grub prompt in an installation use case -- the boot images seem to be configured right, to give you a ramdisk and go into an installer.

But I will say:

> I am going to do a Network install, no I am not going to do this.

For Debian netinst really is the best. Debian has a lot of packages. I haven't kept up with all the full media over the years [first time I did a debian install was '99 or so], but it's always seemed pretty "completist", and contains more than I'll ever use. With netinst you get a base system, it gets you to a shell quickly and you can apt-get exactly what you need without a lot else.

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by dredmorbius on Sunday July 07, 2019 @12:51AM (#20373611)
BD-ROM: Blu-Ray Disk Read Only Memory.

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/BD-ROM

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by CRConrad on Saturday July 20, 2019 @01:14PM (#20487004)
"What is a a BD-ROM?"

A Bondage and Domination video on a plastic disk?

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by asveikau on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:36PM (#20373097)
False! I have done my share of Debian installs over the years and I don't have anything above a bachelor's degree.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by winrid on Sunday July 07, 2019 @12:46AM (#20373595)
Hell, I was doing it when I was 15... :p
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by 29athrowaway on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:07PM (#20373014)
Debian network install (amd64) is a safe choice.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by ebg13 on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:08PM (#20373018)
How many clicks does it take to find that?

Scratch that.

How do you find that without knowing exactly where it is already? What do you click on? Where is it on the page? What and how much do you have to ignore before you finally get to the part at every stage that's actually relevant to the breadcrumb trail?

[edit] The "click Get Debian" responses are absolutely killing me. OH YES AND THEN WHAT? How many paragraphs of jargon do you have to casually slide past? How many links do you have to _not_ click? How do you know which links to actually click vs all the ones that you're supposed to not click? The definition of "free"? The "installation manual"? Will the small image be incomplete? What's the difference between a small CD and a tiny CD? What's the difference between a USB stick and a "flexible" USB stick? Can't I put a DVD on a USB stick? I swear this kind of UX aspect blindness is why people hate SWEs.

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by _delirium on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:14PM (#20373035)
There's a big "Getting Debian" link at the top of every page!
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by 29athrowaway on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:16PM (#20373038)
"Getting Debian".

From there you have roughly 5 options:

1) small installer that gets packages over the internet (netinst)

2) large installer that includes a bunch of packages ("CDs")

3) same as 2 but delivered to you physically

4) qcow2 cloud images

5) a live CD + installer

6) a computer with debian preinstalled

netinst is recommended if you can have a network interface that is supported out of the box.

Ubuntu's installation would be equivalent to 5) and is the friendliest UX.

You are expected to know which architecture you are using although branding makes it really hard for new users to figure that out.

Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by allset_ on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:10PM (#20373024)
It's on the Getting Debian page, so two clicks total.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by phosphophyllite on Sunday July 07, 2019 @03:39AM (#20374000)
How can I find "unofficial" testing image with non-free drivers?
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by Avamander on Saturday July 06, 2019 @11:36PM (#20373437)
Clearly people replying that haven't had to instruct other people to download it for a very long time.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by detaro on Sunday July 07, 2019 @05:47AM (#20374347)
"Here, let me send you a link"
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by Avamander on Sunday July 07, 2019 @07:32AM (#20374611)
Over a voice call?
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by CRConrad on Saturday July 20, 2019 @01:16PM (#20487015)
"What's your e-mail address, so I can send you a link?"
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by ohazi on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:12PM (#20373029)
As long as you have an ethernet cable if you have a laptop with an intel wifi card.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by U8dcN7vx on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:31PM (#20373082)
And good bandwidth, which of course not everyone has. But there are tradeoffs in every choice.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by nerdponx on Saturday July 06, 2019 @09:50PM (#20373136)
What in the world is a "network install" and what is "amd64"? Sounds geeky, I don't know what this is.
Re:Debian 10 “Buster” Released by shpx on Saturday July 06, 2019 @11:19PM (#20373393)
I remember installing Linux when I was like 14 and having a hard time trying to understand what x86/x86_64/x64/arm64 was. Knowledge that is mandatory, isn't explained in the place where kids encounter it for the first time, but completely useless if all you want to do is use a computer.