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Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by pas on Friday July 05, 2019 @02:13PM (#20364526)
Not likely. Cancer only gets serious after most of reproduction and child rearing and nurturing has been done. Whereas cold is pretty serious for infants for example.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by dllthomas on Friday July 05, 2019 @02:23PM (#20364597)
Do note that you're doing that analysis in a setting where kids get a whole lot of colds.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by pas on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:54PM (#20365824)
Do note that evolution started to optimize when the conditions were a lot harsher. (Warm clean rooms with food and clean water, clean clothes, NSAIDs, etc.)
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by dllthomas on Friday July 05, 2019 @05:12PM (#20365931)
My point wasn't that a cold can't be dangerous.

My point was that if getting a cold made a significant difference in the likelihood of some cancer then you may be substantially undercounting the risk of that cancer to children in the counterfactual where there is no susceptibility to colds.

(To be clear, I don't think the parent's speculation is likely accurate. I do think it's interesting.)

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by pas on Sunday July 07, 2019 @12:17PM (#20375835)
That's a very important point, and you are of course right. (Your original comment wasn't very clear and I misinterpreted it, sorry.)

Do kids (and people in general) get substantially less colds in warmer climates? Because then we can check cancer rates there. (And spend a lot of effort on controlling for other differences.)

I wonder if anyone did this kind of data fishing.

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by dllthomas on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @11:13AM (#20392562)
> Your original comment wasn't very clear and I misinterpreted it, sorry.

Yeah, there's some tension between risk of being seen as condescending and making sure everything is sufficiently clear. In a low-stakes context like this (and outside of clarifications or responses to ELI5 requests) I try not to fill in all the gaps - when it goes well it leaves us all feeling a little smarter and when it goes wrong it occasionally leads somewhere interesting. The increased risk of misinterpretation was made even worse here by the priming of several other people making the point I wasn't.

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by gbrown on Friday July 05, 2019 @07:05PM (#20366604)
Well said.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by xky on Friday July 05, 2019 @06:32PM (#20366407)
Your parent was not being snarky. The parroting is snarky and doesn’t assist your point.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by pas on Sunday July 07, 2019 @12:00PM (#20375724)
I haven't interpreted that comment as snakry, and I had no intention to be snarky, though I see why it came off like that.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by rjurney on Saturday July 06, 2019 @03:09AM (#20368401)
Well, hold on there: natural selection is not always so simple. Older adults take care of their own as well as the extended family's offspring, providing a mechanism for selection.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by londons_explore on Saturday July 06, 2019 @11:27AM (#20370120)
It's also negative natural selection if Aunt Anna is very old, can barely walk, is losing her mind, yet still eats all the food the children grow ...
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by rjurney on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @03:08PM (#20405323)
For a short time but caring for the sick has benefits overall and granny had years of productivity after fertility.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by arkades on Friday July 05, 2019 @03:34PM (#20365196)
Colds are not the flu. Children tolerate colds just fine.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by balabaster on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:22PM (#20365544)
In my experience of being around a lot of kids, my own included, kids tend to tolerate colds a whole lot better than adults do.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by lloydde on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:41PM (#20365708)
Colds are dangerous to new borns just as the parent comment says.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by Flott on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:45PM (#20365742)
Pretty much anything is dangerous for a new born. I have to admit that I'd be much more scared from the flu on a new born than a cold.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by lloydde on Friday July 05, 2019 @05:31PM (#20366044)
Sure, my comment is generally obvious, except I felt it needed to be said as arkades's comment seemed dismissive of the risks to infants with his response of "Colds are not the flu. Children tolerate colds just fine."

Flu are truly scary causing deaths throughout childhood with increased survival around two years and then again around five years. My youngest turns five this month. Before she was two she was hospitalized with croup and she has had a rougher ride with illness than my other kids along the way too.

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by arkades on Friday July 05, 2019 @08:07PM (#20366870)
Newborns are in danger from just about anything.

Other special populations of children include those with AIDS, CF, DM, and any other immunocompromising condition or respiratory anomaly.

Having addressed the special populations that are implicitly not the targets of broad comments:

Typical children tolerate colds just fine. It’s not the flu.

(Croup is also not a cold.)

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by lloydde on Saturday July 06, 2019 @06:56PM (#20372529)
Exactly, newborns are regularly put in danger as people do not appreciate the seriousness of the most likely disease new borns could encounter, the common cold.

I appreciate you being complete here, though your opening also reads like you are doubling down on your previous response.

Your comment about croup is also bizarre, as the paragraph I included mention of it in is not about colds. Context matters.

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by empath75 on Friday July 05, 2019 @03:37PM (#20365211)
my kids get a cold every month, it seems like.. I don't think it's that serious.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by pas on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:52PM (#20365809)
Sure, because we have fire, shelter, insulation, clothes, a virtually endless supply of food, medicine, safe/clean potable water, etc.

Evolution started without any of those.

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by dllthomas on Friday July 05, 2019 @05:13PM (#20365937)
Evolution started without DNA, so that's not quite the right focus.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by dredmorbius on Saturday July 06, 2019 @01:09PM (#20370618)
200k - 2m years of human / protohuman development, vs ~100 years under vaguely modern conditions, is a big difference.

Your reply fails to acknowledge it.

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by dllthomas on Saturday July 06, 2019 @01:28PM (#20370695)
My reply was narrowly addressing a mistake repeated across a couple comments. It was not intended to undermine the argument as a whole.

Your comment seems, by implication, to make a similar mistake: it doesn't matter much how long we were in a different situation - what matters is whether we've had enough of a chance to adapt to the new one. It doesn't take (k)X years to "undo" adaptations that took X years to find.

And yes, the 100 years you give are clearly not enough generations to do much adapting. Some of the items mentioned in the earlier comment (clothes, fire, shelter) are things humans have had for substantially longer than 100 years. But I don't know enough about the relevant time scales for anything to be clear to me about how much we've probably adapted to having them, which is why I didn't speak to that.

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by dredmorbius on Saturday July 06, 2019 @03:15PM (#20371307)
Fair enough: evolution works via both drift selection mechanisms, the latter which may quite suddenly imposed.

My view is that the past century or so may be an increased period of both driftband (through geographic contact) remixing, possibly to be followed by a selection process, whether by civilisation collapse, singularity, or other mechanisms.

In particular, it seems that the dramatic reductions of, e.g., early childhood mortality, represent the lifting of an immense amount of selection. To what end becomes an interesting quesstion.

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by pas on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @09:11AM (#20401591)
I think having invented shelter, food, clothes vs reliably having clean clothes and warm shelter and food is a big difference.

Similarly how we have the surplus resources to keep people alive and well (and thus productive) with seriously adaptive-maladaptive trait groups, eg. Stephen Hawking and other famous physicists of the 20th century. https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-consid...

Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by dllthomas on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @12:28PM (#20403511)
Sure. As I said, my response wasn't intended to undermine the thesis, just to point out some confusion (hopefully in language, possibly in ideas).
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by lloydde on Friday July 05, 2019 @04:43PM (#20365726)
Colds are dangerous to new borns just as the parent comment says.
Re:Bladder cancer 'attacked and killed by common cold virus' by everdev on Saturday July 06, 2019 @12:50AM (#20367948)
Sure, but communities with healthy parents and elders probably successfully raise more children.