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Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by kfk on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @04:50AM (#20333348)
Advocates of real free markets want a carbon tax. Externalities are a real problem and there is a lot of economics research on how to deal with it. The issue is that “right wing” has passed to signify “liberal”. There is nothing less liberal, or capitalistic, than most of the current right wing parties in western countries.
Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by chewz on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @05:03AM (#20333386)
Carbon tax is terrible idea. We have a science proving that it won't work.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lucas_Jr.

Pseudo-market solutions do not work. They are quickly gamed by market players. It would be just a waste of precious time.

Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by llukas on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @05:25AM (#20333479)
> We have a science proving that it won't work.

I think physicists can say they proven something but it is in principle debatable. Economy is just witchcraft in comparison - please do not give economy more credibility than it deserves.

Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by TelmoMenezes on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @06:03AM (#20333646)
> I think physicists can say they proven something

Not even them. It only makes sense to talk about proof in formal domains such as math and logic.

Science proves nothing. It is impossible to prove that any given scientific theory will not be falsified in the future. In fact, physics was one of the main inspirations for the idea of "paradigm shift" by Thomas Kuhn in his famous work "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions".

Talking about proof in science is damaging, and it conveys the wrong idea about what science actually is.

Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by belorn on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @05:26AM (#20333485)
Looking at (https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/2207/economics/carbon-tax...) the primary argument against Carbon tax is that companies will somehow tax evade even more than in the past, and companies will move to more tax friendly companies than they already do.

Is there an argument against carbon tax that can't be said by any other tax?

Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by DennisP on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @11:08AM (#20335847)
The easy way to implement a carbon tax is to tax at major sources, like coal mines and oil wells, and let the producers pass on the cost to everyone else. It's not terribly difficult to assess the amount of coal produced by a mine.

It's also fairly difficult to move a coal mine to another country. Of course, people could import their carbon-intensive goods, but most proposals include tariffs on countries without comparable carbon fees. Tariffs like these are explicitly allowed by trade agreements.

Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by chewz on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @06:39AM (#20333812)
The objective of carbon tax is to give incentives to market participants and let the market to the job. In my opinion it will result in creating huge wealth transfers with much real benefit to the climate.

I would rather side with Naomi Klein that capitalism proved ineffective in solving problems of this scale.

Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by anonuser123456 on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @06:16PM (#20339889)
So decide by fiat it doesn't work rather than run the experiment?
Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by VorticesRcool on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @05:12AM (#20333428)
That link does not say anything about science or a carbon tax. What did that economist have to say about it?
Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by chewz on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @06:33AM (#20333787)
Lucas got Noble prize for proving that market participants game new rules faster then regulators introduce them.

Pseudo-market solutions in healtcare (pricing procedures with ICD and allowing market participants compete) are currently proved as inefficient. Net gain for market participants but net loss for people and goverment budgets.

So my reservation is for carbon tax as gigantic wealth transfer without real benefits to climate. I am not against urgent action on climate.

Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by graeme on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @07:45AM (#20334064)
Is a tax a regulation in that sense? I’m wary of non-tax responses to climate change for the reasons you suggest, I think they’re easy to game.

But with a tax you can only evade. The income tax still raises revenue and discourages income, even though it can be evaded and often is. I think a carbon tax would similarly raise revenue and discourage carbon, while letting us cut worse taxes like the carbon tax.

Re:Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest ar... by Scarblac on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @05:34AM (#20333529)
Rationing then. What else?