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Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by weaksauce on Sunday June 30, 2019 @10:53PM (#20322114)
82 degrees F and drenched in sweat? man that's a nice day here in southern california.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by butteroverflow on Sunday June 30, 2019 @11:07PM (#20322169)
The level of comfort also heavily depends on the level of humidity, doesn't it? Seems pointless to compare temperatures only.

Would love to get all the complainers here to spend one month in winter where I live. We frequently have -35 to -45°C outside, and +30-35°C inside. How about a 70°C temperature difference?

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by copperx on Monday July 01, 2019 @01:50AM (#20322771)
That sounds like the city is a power outage away from severe hypothermia or death, depending on the insulation of buildings. How are system failures handled?
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by butteroverflow on Monday July 01, 2019 @02:16AM (#20322865)
> How are system failures handled?

By prayer. It happened a couple times, although not yet on the city scale.

I don't personally know anyone who was affected. What they did, according to the local press, was stuffing every crack and cranny with old rags and sleeping fully clothed (as in fur coats and the like) and under as many blankets as they could get their hands on.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by hvidgaard on Monday July 01, 2019 @02:45AM (#20322990)
If temperatures frequently get below -30C in the winter, one would think that getting a proper sleeping bag rated for that would be a no brainer.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by distances on Monday July 01, 2019 @03:09AM (#20323100)
It's extremely rare for heating to fail. I don't know of anyone who would've prepared specifically for this in Nordic countries.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by hvidgaard on Monday July 01, 2019 @03:21AM (#20323161)
It's not only for heating to fail. If your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere you could be in for a bad time if you cannot stay warm.

It's standard advice to keep blankets or the like in your car for this specific scenario. Besides, for the majority of people in the Nordic contries, their normal winter comforter is warm enough to keep them warm should the heating fail.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by close04 on Monday July 01, 2019 @04:10AM (#20323381)
I had to go to one of these cold places once for a couple of weeks. The car I was given was a modified Toyota Land Cruiser with two 100 liter tanks, additional insulation, additional battery inside, Webasto heater for both inside and engine compartment. It was also stocked with some useful stuff in case you do get stuck out in the middle of nowhere.

Those people were ready, when you live your whole life in such environments you quickly get "infused" with a lot of experience that was accumulated over generations.

So I'd be more worried about people in a regular country getting severe low temp weather than a failing heating system in one region used to extreme cold.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by C1sc0cat on Monday July 01, 2019 @07:45AM (#20324372)
That is normal advice for the UK even in the part wear heavy snow is rare.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by jey on Sunday June 30, 2019 @11:11PM (#20322185)
Why is it so warm inside?
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by butteroverflow on Sunday June 30, 2019 @11:25PM (#20322234)
We have city-wide central heating system. If you don't pump (literally) boiling water into the system, it gets pretty cold in apartments furthest from the heating station. I live somewhere in between, so it gets even hotter the closer you live to the station. What do people do to combat this? They open the windows, and it's -40°C outside. This further lowers the efficiency of the whole system, so they get the water temperature even higher. Rinse and repeat.

Of course, instead of opening the windows, you could always install a gate valve (or whatever it is called in English) and close it to make the water go through your apartment's heating elements without actually (mostly) heating them, and that's what they recommend, but why bother? The level of self-entitlement of many people here, you wouldn't believe. I could tell stories all day long.

Like a caricature of a stereotypical American tourist.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by Symbiote on Monday July 01, 2019 @04:01AM (#20323343)
Copenhagen has the same system (it's actually steam that is piped around the city; gases are much easier to move than liquids). It's called district heating.

In the basement of my building there's a heat exchange, which uses the steam to heat water. This water is piped around the building.

My fairly new apartment has a meter fitted on that hot water pipe. It measures how much heat I extract from the water, and I'm charged accordingly.

In some older buildings, they have some sort of temperature logging device on each radiator. I assume this is to charge the residents according to their usage.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by olau on Monday July 01, 2019 @07:41AM (#20324347)
Minor thing, but Copenhagen is odd with the steam. They're in the process of moving to hot water.

The trend is towards heating the water less, houses are getting better insulation, less energy is needed, and the hotter water is more expensive when heated by a heat pump and also in losses.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by fyfy18 on Sunday June 30, 2019 @11:41PM (#20322287)
That sounds ridiculously ineffeicient. My post-Soviet city has district heating, and similar temperatures, but usually bottoms out at -35c.

In each building there is a system which takes the district heat and uses it to heat the water of the building. Both hot tap water and central heating. But the water is separate from district heat, so in each building the temperatures can be adjusted.

In older buildings you still have the issue you describe on a macro level - apartments on the bottom floor are too hot, and on the top are too cold - but it doesn't matter how close or far your building is from the district heating station.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by butteroverflow on Monday July 01, 2019 @12:20AM (#20322435)
Yeah, they've been talking about implementing something like that for as long as I can remember. The current system wastes so much heat that it's always 10-15°C warmer in the city than outside its borders.

I mean, how much coal do you have to burn to warm the air outside by 10-15°C?

I am from an ex-Soviet city too, by the way.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by fri_sch on Monday July 01, 2019 @01:25AM (#20322661)
I think whoever is responsible for such a waste of resources should be held accountable for severe damage to the environment and the climate system.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by gambiting on Monday July 01, 2019 @03:40AM (#20323255)
By whom? They are given a job to provide heat for the city - and they are doing so. The people telling them to do that job are probably also the same people unwilling to schedule any budget to upgrade the system so make it more efficient.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by C1sc0cat on Monday July 01, 2019 @07:47AM (#20324380)
They are long retired or dead by now
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by Gravityloss on Monday July 01, 2019 @04:15AM (#20323403)
Thermostats have been around for a hundred years or so. Could solve the problem...

What I've heard is that some portion of pension is given as free heating. So it makes no sense for the individual to conserve it. Giving it as money and then billing for the heating could create some other problems too.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by butteroverflow on Monday July 01, 2019 @05:47AM (#20323822)
I am not sure about pensions, but we pay quite a lot for heating. We do it every month and all year long, actually, because money management is a problem for many, and if you shift all the payments to one season (which is 4-8 months, depending on the weather), each monthly payment would be a problem for many. So they stretch it out across the year.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by plufz on Monday July 01, 2019 @04:03AM (#20323352)
In which nordic country do you live? Im swedish and we have centralized water heating, and to me it sounds insane that people where you live does not have gate valves. The only time I heard of someone without that was when a friend changed the heating system in his building, and that was like a week of high temp. 30 degrees inside during winter sounds totally insane. Here we discuss that we should lower from 23 in the winter to save resources.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by butteroverflow on Monday July 01, 2019 @04:36AM (#20323498)
Well, here's what people over here tend to live in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchyovka

These buildings were developed in massive numbers back in post-WW2 years, across the whole Soviet Union. with the task to move people out of barracks in some sort of relatively comfortable housing. Back then there wasn't much money to spare (still isn't). They typically have pretty bad insulation and are built out of, as we say, "cardboard" walls.

When it's cold enough outside (-35°C and lower), you can see the energy losses with a naked eye, as hot air escapes through every crack in the building (and there are a lot of them). No need for thermal cameras.

People over here just don't give a fuck about nature. Now it's the middle of summer, it's +33°C outside. I am sitting in the office with two ACs running at full capacity and with all windows open, because "there isn't enough air". I tried arguing with this, but it's pretty difficult to go against all my coworkers at once. It's a cultural problem, and I have no idea how to fight this.

Thanks for the sanity check, though, at least I know it's not me going crazy.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by SXX on Monday July 01, 2019 @05:23AM (#20323698)

  > I am sitting in the office with two ACs running at full capacity and with all windows open, because "there isn't enough air". I tried arguing with this, but it's pretty difficult to go against all my coworkers at once.
What is your solution? To close windows and enjoy excess CO2?

When people complain about not having enough air it's almost always mean that ventilation system in building is insufficient and there in fact too much of CO2.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by butteroverflow on Monday July 01, 2019 @05:39AM (#20323775)
Sure. They don't seem to have any problems in the middle of winter, when windows stay fully closed for at least 3 months each year.

About a half also smokes, and then they "don't have enough air".

By the way, the office faces an arterial road, as they are called, with heavy traffic right outside. When you open a window, it fills very quickly with traffic fumes. This gives me persistent headaches almost every day.

Is it really better than CO2?

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by SXX on Monday July 01, 2019 @06:33AM (#20324034)

  > They don't seem to have any problems in the middle of winter, when windows stay fully closed for at least 3 months each year.
It's very much possible that during the winter ventilation performs better since there is hot air inside and cold outside. Or your office building just have similar hot air loss as your housing and it's helps to remove excessive CO2. Thermodynamics huh.

Also oxygen consumption and overall feel can be affected by temperature of environment.

  > About a half also smokes, and then they "don't have enough air".
No surprise since heavy smoker lungs and hearts often perform worse and they going to be more sensitive to CO2. It's even worse if they're overweight or have other health issues.

  > Is it really better than CO2?
I cannot say without some kind of measurement, but I guess yeah: even if there is massive road outside it's could still be better than staying with constantly high CO2. It's can be worse long-term for your health, but to be productive human brain need oxygen and many people more sensitive to CO2 level than others.

Personally I don't smoke and have healthy lifestyle, but I still extremely sensitive CO0 and without proper ventilation I just can't work efficiently if at all. So any room I stay in will always have open window no matter if there is AC working or not.

So it's great that you don't have same issue, but please keep in mind that people not just imagining things. Yeah they can quit smoking and watch their health, but CO2 is still extremely important. If you don't believe me rent some air quality meter and check it for yourself.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by butteroverflow on Monday July 01, 2019 @07:19AM (#20324246)
Thanks for the detailed response. I don't deny that it might be difficult for someone to work without ventilation. I simply find the air outside extremely irritating to my throat, nose, and upper airways. This "fresh air" frequently gives me headaches, which rarely happen if it is kept outside. I wasn't prone to headaches at all before I started working here. I rarely open windows at home and feel fine. It seems to be a no-win situation, and the better solution for us is to part our ways, which I am working on.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by weaksauce on Monday July 01, 2019 @11:52AM (#20326596)
I mean I live near the ocean so it’s almost always pretty humid.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by RomanBob on Monday July 01, 2019 @01:12AM (#20322619)
Where do you live exactly? What is the source of this heat energy?
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by butteroverflow on Monday July 01, 2019 @02:08AM (#20322825)
Sorry, I've spent enough time on the internet to know never to share any specific personal details.

It's cheap low-quality coal with high sulfur content. The level of air pollution it produces is insane. In winter time you can feel the taste of coal on your tongue. The level of visibility is like 150-200 meters, after that it's a solid grey wall. Nobody here cares though, and if you do, you pick up your things and move elsewhere. That's what I am currently preparing to do.

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by h4waii on Monday July 01, 2019 @02:29AM (#20322917)
Very curious to know where this is. The most I've seen similar to this is above ground City-wide piped sewage and water in Inuvik.

You'd have to be in a pretty small community, not a City, in maybe NU?

Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by Symbiote on Monday July 01, 2019 @04:03AM (#20323347)
I think it's much more likely to be somewhere in Russia, Kazakhstan etc.
Re:New Raspberry Pi 4 Firmware Lowers Temperature by 3-5°C by Fnoord on Monday July 01, 2019 @04:42AM (#20323528)
Yes, ex-Soviet [1]

"I am from an ex-Soviet city too, by the way."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20322435