There were basically three things that made Macbooks very appealing to developers before:

1) Very good hardware at a not-huge markup when compared apples-to-apples (haha) with Wintel hardware.

2) Unixy OS with outstanding Just Works but it's not your fault should it fail to Just Work, as in "ugh Tom's laptop won't connect to the projector again, because he insists on running Linux."

3) Excellent pick-up-and-go, thanks to a good, if not comprehensive, port selection, the best touchpad in the industry by a long shot and the only one I've ever used that doesn't make me start looking around the room for a mouse or feel like I need to keep one in my laptop bag, and battery life much better than the typical "get you from one outlet to another" of many (especially budget and midrange) Windows devices, while also being (yeah, yeah) thin and light. You could just grab your laptop and go, and be ready for most things, for most of a workday, no power cord, no mouse, no anything.

The 1st and 3rd of these have suffered a lot lately, with large price hikes putting them solidly back in the "LOL WUT?" pricing territory they periodically flirt with, and 3 thanks to #DongleLife making it pretty much impossible to plug anything "in the wild" into a Macbook at all without an adapter, and the keyboard going from good-enough to fairly-crappy. I'm hoping for fixes to some of the problems and for some of the "...and all those improvements, and we're also dropping the price $200!" announcements they did pretty regularly there for a while, because man, I still don't see any real competition for them out there, despite their missteps.

> the keyboard going from good-enough to fairly-crappy.

And don't forget the ginormous trackpad where your typing ends up in weird places because your palm or your wrist touched it unexpectedly. And forget it if you had the shift key pressed - very easy to have a large chunk of the document you're working on disappear making you wonder wtf just happened.

Do you actually use a mac? Because I've NEVER had that happen to me. Ever.

The trackpad software is exceptionally good at detect errant touches.

Maybe my experience is abnormal.

Related, I saw someone using their Apple Pencil with their writing hand hovering above the screen. They weren’t aware of palm rejection, thanks to crappy experiences from other devices and touch based stylus use.

I've never had the palm rejection work on my ipads, sadly, so I too have to use a stylus with my hand hovering, or else I get weird lines and mis-clicks on various UI elements.

The Apple Pencil generates its own signal separate from touch. A stylus does not. Palm rejection is basically ideal with an actual pencil, but not ideal with a touch stylus.

Agree. It's so ridiculously large on the pro, absurd for the use a programmer needs

I prefer the new keyboard to the old one. And the touchpad is still the best touchpad in the industry by a long shot.

> Macbook Pros have passed their peak

As someone who has used a number of Mac(book)s for years, I agree with this general (or a vocal minority's) consensus.

It's a beautiful machine: great OS, hardware integration is (mostly) top notch, and a lot of pro-grade hard/software for multimedia production are only available on the Mac.

And yet, the 2013 Macbook Pro (maxed out beyond recommended specs) is the last Apple-built computer I will buy. I recently built myself a PC that dual-boots macOS and Linux, and am looking at Thinkpads for my next laptop.

I don't know if "the tide" is moving to Linux, but at least I am, and being the most computer-savvy person in my social circle, I'm recommending everyone I know to not buy a Mac/book. It's probably the best computer in the market for that form factor, but the company has given the users too many reasons to move away.

Totally tangential rant here, but when I've had family or close friends (the kind who would come to me for free tech support and who I would generally indulge) ask me for recommendations, I've told them that I don't know Mac products well enough to recommend / recommend against them, but that if they get iOS or Macs, I simply won't be in a position to help them. Almost invariably they get the Apple device, need help, can't get it from Apple, and come back to me. Can't stand it. And if I ever have a glitch they'll say, "but Apple stuff just works..."

The only difference when they do choose the products you recommend (in my case it is Apple), they come to you first before even trying the manufacturer's support.

I don't mind that - I can almost always fix an Android or PC glitch myself. It's the look of disbelief when I tell them I have no idea if their iPad is supposed to do that or not, followed by, "but you're a techy person".

>2013 Macbook Pro is the last Apple-built computer I will buy

I had a 2013 and a 2015 at the same time (one for work, one personal) and the only difference was the Force Touch trackpad on the 2015. After using the 2013 for a while, I noticed my finger being sore, and I trace it back to trying to click anywhere (like the top of the trackpad) on the 2013 like I could on the 2015. It wouldn't work, so I'd push harder and end up hurting my finger.

Long story short, I'd much rather have a 2015 MBP than a 2013.

MacBook models until around 2009 had a physical button at the bottom of their trackpads. Imagine that it's still there -- use your thumb to click, and your fingers for everything else. I'm pretty sure that's what Apple intended users to do (until they made tap-to-click the default recently).

They need to fix a few things (mostly on the Macbook Pro) and drop their prices somewhat, which isn't a crazy thing to hope for since they did it pretty often not that long ago, sometimes even while announcing an upgrade. I still think their iOS device prices are fairly decent for what you get, but their Mac hardware pricing's gone way out of wack in the last 3ish years.

IMO The current MacBook design iteration has mostly been a disappointment. The hardware quality has materially worsened over the previous generation, with numerous reports of keyboard, screen, and speaker issues. They sacrificed far too much in order to achieve the thin form factor. The touchbar is also a terrible joke.

I’ve had two current-gen MBPs through work and both of them have completely convinced me against buying my own. They’re both so inferior to the design of the previous generation.

Your points are completely valid, I get your frustration. But you are comparing against previous generations of MacBooks. I would like to know your thoughts when comparing against e.g. a top tier ThinkPad running Windows or Linux.

I couldn’t use it long enough to unlearn using the trackpad as a crutch. Thinkpad trackpads are pretty terrible by comparison. I also hated trying to use windows and didn’t want to keep maintaining a Linux install, though that might have gotten better lately.

I am going to ride out my personal 2013 mbp until they fix the keyboards on the new machines. I have a new one at work, and each incremental fix still breaks after a while and I don’t think they have ironed it out. It’s a beautiful feeling machine and I want to love it. However, you can get everything else perfect and screw up the keyboard, and it doesn’t matter because I can’t get work done.

If they don’t get it right by the time my current MBP dies completely I guess I’ll see how far Linux has come. I’d suggest the same for you - even as an apple shareholder and former employee I can’t recommend a programmer buy a laptop with such an unreliable keyboard. But if they nail the keyboard in the next generation, absolutely hop aboard the bandwagon.

Pretty much it comes down to the flaky keyboards for me. USBC support is just getting better, the displays and trackpad are still best in class, and a lightweight aluminum unibody design is something I didn’t think I would miss but you absolutely do. The OS is widely supported by a community of other developers, and it is super easy to set up a productive development environment. And the OS is widely supported by hardware and software vendors too, so you don’t have to fight compatibility issues nearly as much as Linux.

The X1 Carbon has a really nice body, and a decent screen. The touchpad is still hot garbage, and I never really enjoyed using the nub, but overall they've come closer than anything I've used to unseating my MBP as a daily driver.

You could try an apple trackpad and a good keyboard alongside some other hardware.

An apple trackpad isn’t just the hardware, it’s also the software integration. Plus, who wants to carry around an external trackpad for their machine? I’ll just cope with avoiding the trackpad if I switch back.

I can’t honestly give you that comparison because I’ve never used a thinkpad long enough to get to know it. I’ve been Mac-only for 8 years now, but I’m looking around to see if the community decides on a solid MBP replacement of my old MBP dies.

I think this depends a lot on what kind of laptop user you are. Are you someone who is always at a desk with a mouse and keyboard, or do you want to post up in a coffee shop with just your machine and no peripherals?

The macbook pro is vastly superior to any device for the later use case because the touchpad is so far ahead of anything else. The new keyboard on the other hand is a bit frustrating when coming back from my personal surface book.

> Macbook Pros have passed their peak

There's this weird idea that the quality of Apple products has just always steadily increased over time until this most recent MacBook Pro.

If you've been using Macs long enough, you'll remember various iBook debacles, the horrific 2006 MacBook, the utterly bizarre 3rd gen iPod, and other past missteps.

They'll bounce back (even though I actually love the current MBPs).

The System76 Thelio seems to be picking up steam for a high-end native-Linux desktop.

You may like these: https://puri.sm/

I recently was frustrated with Apple because my past two Macbook Pros broke and they refused service on the known issues because I had missed the recall windows (one was brought in before there was a recall and after).

I was you 2 years ago. Now after experiencing failed keyboard, battery and overall poor performance in my MBP I'm back with linux on a thinkpad. I'm curious about Windows though.

A bit of advice: if you end up buying a macbook give it some time and don't move your whole life into the ecosystem. It's incredibly hard to move out. You can't just export all your photo albums, Things tasks, and so on.

I was about to. Then I heard quite a few of my colleagues who used Mac had endless keyboard problems and surffered from lack of function keys in the high end laptop which was a good 1000 dollars more expensive than similarly specced ThinkPad and stuck with using windows with tLinux layer. Maybe with Ive gone, they'll finally make a competitive laptop.

The iMac Pro is a fantastic machine, so if you want a workstation, that's probably your best bet.

Hell, even the 27" iMac is a great "everyday driver."

I do software development + sysadmin and am very happy with my iMac. (Retina 5K 27", 3.6G i9, 64GB RAM)

If you're open to Windows consider checking out the Razer Blade 15" laptop. I'm biased because I play video games but it's as nicely made as any computer apple ever made, with great hardware.

Consider the Thinkpad X1 Carbon lineup or the model up, the Thinkpad P1

It does seem like Macbook Pros have been on the decline. But this new Mac Pro feels like Apple turning back to the workstation use case anymore, especially with a quad-GPU option. I'm hoping the departure of Jony Ive will turn the Macbook Pros back in the right direction.

Personally, I'll avoid any Apple products just because of the not uncommon horror stories I hear from customer service.

To be fair what PC company does not have horror stories when it comes to customer service? The only exception I've personally experienced is Dell enterprise support, but that's a far reach from what any consumer will have.

In college, I worked at my school's IT helpdesk, and have bought Latitude and Vostro models ever since. Next Business Day support, no questions asked. You don't have to be part of a corporation to get that level of service. I had a busted heat sink on my cheap $500 vostro, and they sent a technician over to fix it.

That's true. If I had an SV engineer salary I probably wouldn't think it too much. But the cheapest MacBook Pro is a quarter of my yearly earnings, so right now I will choose what is cheaper to maintain.

Strictly when it comes to customer service? Maybe Razer?

Their prices are definitely horror inducing for some of their peripherals, otoh...but that’s probably applicable to a large part of the “gaming peripherals” market.

Wait, what? I own a razer laptop but I bought it with knowledge that if anything goes wrong Razer support is worse than useless.

YMMV? I have the last generation blade laptop, and granted Ive only had two tickets opened with support but they were (at least in my experience) surprisingly fast and on the money with both experiences.

I didn’t want to speak for everyone so that’s why I posited the italicized “Maybe” because PC support is like throwing darts at a dart board.

From ten miles away.

With headwind.

If you go to the Razer subreddit, there's reasonable consensus that buying from the Microsoft Store, Best Buy, etc. is highly recommended for the extended warranty, which you will have a high chance of using if you regularly game on it.

Interesting. Both of my problems were hardware related (usb port and a power adapter), but I wouldn’t consider myself a “hardcore” gamer, I bought my Razer Blade to play a specific game (The Dishonored trilogy) at the time because I travelled quite often for work and had the disposable funds for it.

Maybe I got extremely lucky with my build, who knows.

Sucks to hear other people are having such a frustrating go at things. Price aside I’ve had a pleasant experience with Razer.

In my experience Razer is both good and bad - good because literally any issue you have with your laptop they will just offer to replace it, bad because the replacement can take 4+ weeks. I'm also slightly worried that it's literally impossible to buy any replacement parts from them, if the need ever arises. From companies like Dell or HP you can order literally any part, down to individual switches, if you know the part number.