News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by freehunter on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @04:18PM (#20288713)
My business does a lot of posting on Facebook of sometimes controversial things (we're a news site and we sometimes cover local politics). By far the most engaged stuff is the most controversial where people begin to fight and attack each other.

I have ~3k followers on one of my pages. Usually ~200-300 people see any given post if it has no engagements. If it has normal engagement, it might get to 1000-2000 views, still short of my follower count. If it has sparked controversy and there is a fight, I've had the views spike up over 8000-9000 without any shares. Facebook posts to your timeline "your friend commented on this" and others start piling in too. Facebook emails me saying "this post is getting more attention than 95% of the rest of your posts, please pay us money to show it to more people". The more toxic the comments, the more views it gets and the more Facebook begs me to pay them for it.

That's the problem with these algorithms that humans don't watch over. Usually it works great and good content is seen by the people who want to see it. But every now and again it goes out of control and people end up getting hurt and Facebook/Twitter profit from it and even promote it. And as the person who posted it, I have zero ways to stop it from spreading other than deleting the post.

-edit- oh another story... I run a news site for a town, lets call it Townsville. There is another Townsville in another state, but it is not my Townsville. I had a post go super viral, 90,000 views from my 3k followers, because somehow the post made it to the wrong Townsville and 87,000 people were being shown the wrong news article. Again, I had no way to stop this, no tools to correct it. Absolute insanity.

Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by ASalazarMX on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @04:45PM (#20288969)
> By far the most engaged stuff is the most controversial where people begin to fight and attack each other.

Well, duh. If people are fighting they are definitely "engaged", but not in a good way. Defining that more engagement equals more success is what made social networks so toxic. The current state that more eyeballs equals more ad money needs to change.

[dead]
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by freehunter on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @08:50PM (#20290815)
>you can choose to stop participating in the toxicity for starters

In my case, it's not that easy. Simply posting factual news updates is often enough to trigger wild responses. For example, a few months ago I attended a city council meeting and wrote a Facebook post during the meeting saying "City has approved a new 70 unit condo project" with a picture of the plans. It was one of the most toxic comment sections I've ever seen simply because some people disagreed with the action being taken. Not my actions, but the actions I was reporting on. The answer certainly is not to stop reporting the news.

On a side note, your comment comes dangerously close to sounding like a personal attack. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong but it seems like you're saying if you have problems on Facebook (which I and the person you're responding to have said we do), we must be pathetic and posting like edgy children seeking the toxicity we find. If that's not your intention, maybe you could clarify?

Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by gdy on Thursday June 27, 2019 @04:22AM (#20292619)
I see that you haven't really abandoned your 'baiting style'.
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by muckrakerz on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @07:14PM (#20290267)
Why do you state that? Some of the largest advances in our society have come from what would be seen as toxic or hostile engagements.
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by em-bee on Friday June 28, 2019 @10:28PM (#20310423)
examples?
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by tunesmith on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @05:52PM (#20289614)
This is kind of like how the value of information is how surprising it is. Classic information theory, but with a twist, because in these cases the "surprise" element is often not the value of the information itself, but the way it is presented. So these algorithms are quite good at recognizing when things are surprising and thus perhaps deserving of wider sharing, but bad at recognizing what kind of surprise it is - is it actually new information, or is it just froth?
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by cat199 on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @06:59PM (#20290148)
> That's the problem with these algorithms that humans don't watch over. ... and Facebook/Twitter profit from it and even promote it.

Don't be fooled.. Someone is spot checking the training data against the output at a statistically valid sampling interval.. ML in this case is the data equivalent of a limited liability corp..

Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by stubish on Thursday June 27, 2019 @04:31AM (#20292658)
Why does someone need to spot check the training data against the output? I'd assumed the algorithm is trying to maximize a metric, which is best completely automated without human intervention to slow it down or provide biased opinions. Even fuzzier goals like 'not be racist' would get turned into metrics (eg. proportion of words used that are on this watchlist or similar scoring algorithm)
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by cat199 on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @08:01AM (#20334169)
> Why does someone need to spot check the training data against the output?

because one wants to make sure ones program is operating as intended?

Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by omegaworks on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @06:15PM (#20289804)
The surprising thing about all of this is that sentiment analysis--machine learning algorithms that can interpret the feeling you're trying to convey with your words--is a fairly solved problem.

These companies can easily put a filter over this engagement maximization algorithm and they are choosing not to.

Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by trickstra on Thursday June 27, 2019 @04:35AM (#20292672)
But why would they do it? They have some pretty solid data to support the argument that more engagement, whatever the quality, equals more money to the poster, and more money to the platform. There is no bad publicity. The question is what can we do about it? It exploits basic human psychology.
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by JetSpiegel on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @08:03PM (#20290567)
Of course, machine can read the commenters' minds, this is a solved problem.

I, for one, welcome our mechanical overlords.

---

https://text2data.com/Demo

This document is: positive (+0.52) Magnitude: 1.39

Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by disgruntledphd2 on Thursday June 27, 2019 @05:18AM (#20292876)
Sorry, can you provide some citations to "sentiment analysis being a solved problem". Last time I looked, it was decidely non-trivial, though I admit I haven't followed the topic in a few years.

And it is worth noting that if these companies could stop this with limited engagement impact, they totally would as it would get them out of the horrible political hole they are in right now.

Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by padobson on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @06:21PM (#20289859)
Mark Zuckerberg is the 21st century's Pablo Escobar.
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by alexanderdmitri on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @06:48PM (#20290057)
Because he runs a vast, violent empire that smuggles illegal drugs?
Re:“Twitter has an algorithm that creates harassment all by ... by filoleg on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @06:57PM (#20290132)
Probably because the parent dislikes Zuck, and the Hitler comparison has gotten too overused in recent times (and Zuck isnt a politician), so Escobar was chosen as an appropriate one. Fully expecting to see that comparison being used against Jeff Bezos soon.

tl;dr: “everyone i dislike is a nazi or something close” syndrome