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Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by ramraj07 on Sunday June 23, 2019 @08:53AM (#20255155)
After spending my first summer in Chennai this time after a decade living in the states, I wanted to point out some things:

1. Water crisis is bad but a good fraction of people (most of the upper and middle class) are getting by through exploitation of ground water. My guess would be half of the city still has usable ground water accessible through bore wells including where I live. However these Wells going dry is a common occurence. Someone is digging a deeper well every day in my street alone (no exaggeration). Heck, my house with 4 tenants is already exhausting it's 5th borewell. The day these Wells collectively stop giving water is when things are going to get very interesting.

2. The government here doesn't really consider water as an utility it's actually responsible for. All the articles you see are mostly talking about drinking water. The pipe system in the city is barely capable of only providing drinking water to most people even if most of the water sources are full. It is everyone's assumption that if you need more than a few tens of liters per day per person for things like showers that's completely on you, not the government. This is not going to change anytime soon. The entire plumbing system is riddled with leaks everywhere and no metering. People have also built systems to abuse this plumbing (by using motors) so unless we get a sudden abundance of water this system cannot provide the water the city needs.

3. Most importantly, if ground water runs out, the city really doesn't have any alternative for water in any developed country sense. No usable River for hundreds of miles and every river that CAN provide water originates in a different state and none of them are prepared to share their resources.

4. Chennai the city alone has more people than most Scandinavian countries. The desalination plants are not going to provide more than a few tens of liters per head even if their capacity multiplies by ten.

5. While there's always blame on people here for wasting water, I'd argue that it's outrageous. Even the worst offenders don't waste that much water compared to any Western standards. My household is definitely in the lower quartiles of how much water we use but I estimate we use at best 50-70 liters of water per head per day including everything. Even if I don't want to think like this, I subconsciously think twice before using the toilet (maybe if I hold it for a while I can go one less time?). People here should not be blamed for abusing water, water should be a basic necessity for our lives.

6. Just three years back this city literally drowned in a flood that was far worse than what happened in Houston.

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by Retric on Sunday June 23, 2019 @07:05PM (#20259305)
Desalination is expensive so you don’t want to scale it. But as a sanity check.

Assuming you’re talking 70L per day, the worst case using desalination is about 20$ per year. So, at that useage level water is not really a long term issue.

It’s a corruption and distribution issue.

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by anovikov on Sunday June 23, 2019 @10:43AM (#20255851)
Of course i have absolutely no idea of the real situation, but why the Palar river isn't usable? Of course water from there will require proper treatment/cleaning, but still? Not trying to argue, ofc you know what you are talking about, just to get a piece of education.

Let me guess, there are bacteria in it's water which are too hard to filter out/kill?

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by _pythonlover_ on Sunday June 23, 2019 @01:21PM (#20257090)
It's not usable because the sand has been mined by the sand mafia for more than two decades. I'm from that area and I've seen thousands of trucks carrying sands every day. And the river is continuously being polluted by industries. It'll take immense effort from the government to make it usable.

One district collector (Irayanbu) tried to fight the sand mafia but he was transferred soon after.

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by bogomipz on Monday June 24, 2019 @08:22AM (#20262755)
Could you elaborate on what the "sand mafia" is and how it has affected the potability of this water source?
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by sreeramvenkat on Sunday June 23, 2019 @11:30AM (#20256208)
Palar river is mostly dry. The last time I saw any water was during 2015 floods.
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by deepaksurti on Monday June 24, 2019 @05:18AM (#20261730)
>> I subconsciously think twice before using the toilet (maybe if I hold it for a while I can go one less time?)

I think what you are saying that you don't hold it, but that you are thinking on those lines.

However, please don't do that, as it is not good for health.

I don't know how well [1] explains it, but at least makes one aware.

[1] https://www.geisinger.org/health-and-wellness/wellness-artic...

edit: added context

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by vegiraghav on Monday June 24, 2019 @03:01AM (#20261134)
That city is so poorly planned, I am surprised it is still habitable. I am not exaggerating here. Just read about how the cyclones couple of years ago messed up the livelihood of so many people.
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by JamesBarney on Sunday June 23, 2019 @08:38PM (#20259649)
I haven't seen anything blaming the residents for wasting water except the reference to metering.

Also I think what constitutes wasting water is context dependent. For instance the amount of wasted food that is a problem is a feast vs a famine is very different.

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by FooHentai on Sunday June 23, 2019 @06:05PM (#20258972)
Thank you for your local perspective. To what extent is individual water harvesting done in the region? Assuming the monsoons of Tamil Nadu include Chennai, is there any barrier to rooftop/tank water storage?
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by rusticpenn on Monday June 24, 2019 @02:13AM (#20260917)
The monsoons are failing (probably due to climate change)
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by paulcole on Sunday June 23, 2019 @09:49AM (#20255458)
> It is everyone's assumption that if you need more than a few tens of liters per day per person for things like showers that's completely on you

Maybe they’re right? If there’s not enough water for everyone to use it like it falls from the sky then maybe we need to rethink how we use water?

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by ramraj07 on Sunday June 23, 2019 @10:33AM (#20255787)
Do you realize what all you need water for? Washing clothes, flushing the toilet and God forbid a bath. And this is not a bath by any Western sense, no one uses a shower or a tub, I'm talking about taking five liters of water and using the absolute minimum to wet yourself for soap and wash the soap off. Even astronauts in the ISS probably use more water than that. Of course someone sitting in a developed country who uses a few hundred liters every day makes this comment.
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by paulcole on Sunday June 23, 2019 @10:47AM (#20255879)
I’m actually working on a waterless toilet startup. It’s like a cat’s litter box but for people (app-connected and Bluetooth enabled, obviously). I really think it will change the way people live in the climate change era.
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by saagarjha on Sunday June 23, 2019 @06:53PM (#20259252)
> app-connected and Bluetooth enabled, obviously

Why?

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by paulcole on Sunday June 23, 2019 @09:11PM (#20259800)
Some of Sandy’s (current name of my startup) technology is borrowed from my friend Liz’s startup. She (Sandy, not Liz) will be able to diagnose disease and transmit test results via Bluetooth to your phone from just a drop of fecal matter. You’ll be able to say, “Hi Sandy, do I have worms?”, for example. Liz said her technology is not foolproof, but what is in this day and age?
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by rusticpenn on Monday June 24, 2019 @02:16AM (#20260925)
I am sorry if I am being rude... Don't you think its a huge issue of trust?. The data can be sold to insurance or advertising companies ( no HIPAA or other laws to protect the data here ).
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by KajMagnus on Monday June 24, 2019 @04:17AM (#20261465)
I imagine having worms and other illnesses is a worse problem, than insurance and advertising companies.

Yes personal data protection it's a good thing to think about, maybe not the highest prio problem though.

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by rusticpenn on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @08:51AM (#20273670)
If your insurance knows about the problem before your doctor, there are lot of grey areas which could be misused.
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by bwilli123 on Monday June 24, 2019 @09:06AM (#20263142)
My startup checks for Leprosy. It's cheap and convenient. Just mail us any finger you have lying around.
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by paulcole on Monday June 24, 2019 @11:47AM (#20264731)
Yes, Sandy will sell that information and use it to provide targeted advertising. EG if you have worms, she will announce ads and discounts for anti-worm medication.

We call it Sandy with special offers. If you'd like to pay extra you can get a special-offer-free experience. If you don't like the idea of any data collection you can just buy a cat litter box and have your own Sandy (without the added features).

Don't see how this is an issue.

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by KajMagnus on Sunday June 23, 2019 @11:09PM (#20260155)
Best wishes with the waterless toilet. Surprised that you got lots of downvotes, when instead your startup team is one of those few actually doing (trying to do) something about the water situation.

Your toilet startup has a website?

(Websearching a bit, seems normal toilet water usage is 30 - 100 liter water a day, sounds like a lot to me.)

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by klyrs on Sunday June 23, 2019 @07:11PM (#20259333)
> I really think it will change the way people live in the climate change era.

Do you really see the 'climate change era' providing robust enough infrastructure that we'll still be kitted out with smartphones?

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by paulcole on Sunday June 23, 2019 @09:09PM (#20259785)
With the water we save with Sandy (name of my startup) the smartphones of tomorrow will likely be powered with small water wheels.
Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by KajMagnus on Monday June 24, 2019 @04:22AM (#20261485)
@klyrs

Seems to me yes people can have mobile phones, and still no water. Have a look at this comment by someone who apparently lives? has lived? in the relevant areas:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20260143

> A good part of people seem destitute, yet they have good mobile phones.

Inexpensive mobile phonoes aren't that expensive and where I live also the beggars have phones. To me seems realistic with a future where everyone is conneted with a phone, and at the same time starving and being ill because of polluted water (or no water).

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by klyrs on Monday June 24, 2019 @10:52PM (#20270777)
I see that, and agree, for the short-term future. My point is that manufacturing of circuits, touchscreens and other components is extremely resource intensive. Relatively pure water is one of very many inputs that are required. Other resources such as metals and rare-earth minerals are often mined in places which are quickly becoming inhospitable.

We already see metals being harvested from infrastructure. I expect that to get worse -- and worse faster in more impoverished areas. It seems to me that the remaining hospitable climes will face increasing pressures on their resources, and the luxury of nearly-free electricity powering smartphones will be fleeting.

Re:Chennai, India's sixth biggest city, has a water crisis by KajMagnus on Saturday June 29, 2019 @07:10PM (#20315404)
Ok that sounds reasonable, that these surprisingly low cost phones, cannot last that long.

At the same time, shipping phones to far away places where there is a "shortage" of phones, and selling them there, is going to be more profitable, per shipment, than shipping water to that same place.

And one needs just a few shipments of phones, for everyone to have a phone. One ships just 0.1 kg phone per person, once. Compared to 10 or 100 kg water per person and day.

With that in mind, I'm thinking phones will continue to be prevalent, in comparison to water, in areas where there's a drought.