>You can spend $5k/mo on a rental

This is the key to happiness in the Bay Area, honestly. The rentals are just fine if you're willing to shell out. Sure you're not building wealth but you have plenty left over to invest, even in a kickass high-rise apartment. It's specifically a desire to own that will screw you over, no matter your compensation.

Where is this $5k/month house with AC within 40 minutes drive of SF and 20 minutes drive of work? (Menlo Park to Mountain View generally being work area) It basically limits you to San Mateo to Mountain View. I haven't seen anything for $5k/month with AC there. If you find it, let me know. I'm in the market - lol.

I have seen one show up here and there but it's almost unequivocally in a terrible neighborhood and/or near the train tracks. Both are dealbreakers. I ain't listening to trains go by at midnight or blast horns at every intersection. Lived that life - done with it.

I spent 3 minutes searching:

https://www.padmapper.com/apartments/36746960/3-bedroom-2-ba...

https://www.padmapper.com/apartments/13951431/3-bedroom-2-ba...

Point is: the trope of “nobody can live in the Bay Area on 125k net” is total bullshit, tired, and flat-out untrue. Is it harder than living on 125k elsewhere? Absolutely. Are you “poor” and unable to afford a great house? No, not at all.

There are plenty of great places.

> https://www.padmapper.com/apartments/36746960/3-bedroom-2-ba....

> https://www.padmapper.com/apartments/13951431/3-bedroom-2-ba....

These are apartments - not single family homes.

I mean, I’m not actually a realtor, but here’s a home for you:

https://www.padmapper.com/apartments/35506914/3-bedroom-2-ba...

My search space was Mountain View, so expand and you’ll find more. Point is there are plenty of options, you just have to look for them.

And, to be fair, I only searched PadMapper, which is an apartment rental website, so my results weren’t even focused on SFH.

> https://www.padmapper.com/apartments/35506914/3-bedroom-2-ba....

Doesn't have AC. Looks like a pretty depressing home - tbh. HDR'd to hell but a brick yard and a BYO washer/dryer that's literally underneath the sun and skies isn't exactly where I'd like to put my expensive appliances.

You can check Craigslist and you won't have much better results. Adding AC | Air Conditioning to your search criteria makes it narrow. Go figure - homes with it are in high demand. God forbid they say, "Air conditioning" but really mean just central air and there's no actual air conditioning. Went to more than one showing that advertised that falsity. :(

Either way, this is beyond the point. Spending over 50% of your net income on rent alone isn't a great move. Which is what you'd be doing at $115k net income.

Many people ignore more meta aspects than numbers:

Seriously, I went to a top-3-in-the-world engineering school...seriously dont I deserve something better than a shack?

Secondly, half the 40+ workers in tech I know are washed out and cant get hired, likely due to age discrimination. Tech is a lighter version of Football -- you better make the money in your 20s and 30s, because you need to live on that cash for the rest of your life. So I cant just blow ALL my post-tax income on rent, I need to save it for the post-40 slump.

Thirdly, you are constantly on the treadmill learning the new new technology. Its an uphill battle constantly for those high paying jobs.

I think your standards may be too high. That looks like a gorgeous home to me.

To be fair, I will agree with you that most places in the Bay Area don't seem to have A/C, but that's also because it's not generally needed here except for a couple weeks a year. You could do what we did in NYC all the time: window A/C's.

That is kind of depressing. My wife would swear I was joking if I told her that we could rent a house for $3,000 more than our mortgage that was less than half size and looks like something built in the 70s.

And people on HN wonder why software engineers living in other major cities in the US have no interest in going to the west coast.

Nobody wonders why. The Bay Area is clearly more expensive than anywhere else other than NYC. Nobody has ever argued that that isn't true. The salaries are also significantly higher, to compensate.

What is being argued here is whether you can live comfortably on a six figure net salary (after taxes).

That housing is expensive in the bay area does suck, no doubt, and is super annoying. But it's far worse for non-engineers. Engineers are fine, and frankly, are the ones who are driving the prices up, by virtue of being capable of and willing to pay more, as companies continue to increase compensation.

Are the salaries “significantly enough higher” that someone moving to the Bay Area could buy a 3000 square foot 5 bed/3-1/2 bath house with a large office, as soon as they move there?

The average software as a service CRUD journeymen developer could do that in many non west coast cities could do that with an FHA loan with less than $15K down with 3-5 with a salary they can make with around 5 years experience. If they are part of a married dual income couple they would be quite comfortable.

They look like they were built in the 70s because they were. That generation decided there were enough houses and promptly banned building any new ones - so we've still got the same ones.

For some reason most of them have the original gross beige carpet too.

OTOH, they do - frequently. If you can bank half your take home which is totally doable you get to move out and buy whatever home you like nearly wherever you like and retire.

Or if you are married dual income earner you can get a job anywhere else, not have to spend $5000 a month rent just to live in a small 35 year old house, live off one income and save the other.....

It’s 90 degrees plus 4 months of the year in many parts of the Bay Area, such as San Jose. So yes, you need air conditioning.

I grew up in San Jose. It's more like 2-3 weeks out of the year where air conditioning 'would be nice'

Me too. You’re right that it’s 90+ a few weeks cumulatively. Although the data is a little old.

Last year there were at least 2 weeks of 100+ degrees at my house. It’s a personal preference, over 80 I need ac. I’m sure some people like heat more. There are ~80 days a year it’s over 80 degrees.

Source: https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/California/Places/san...

Also point out the high doesn't last that long usually. Not like Phoenix where it'll be 90 degrees at 1am and you have trouble sleeping. When I lived in San Jose in August and September I'd just open the windows at night and close them in the morning. Usually the house would stay bearable though the afternoon and early evening.

I remember May and June weather as 'nice'. August and early September as 'hot'. And then October through early December as 'nice'.

If you really want AC, couldn't you buy an air conditioner? You're eliminating most places in the Bay Area with an unusual requirement like that.

I know people living in $2 million+ homes in SF without AC...

AC is completely unnecessary in most parts of SF.

San Francisco is not Silicon Valley. There is a substantial temperature difference between Mountain View and San Francisco.

Ah, so you want a single family home now.

And it has to be in San Mateo->Mtv. And it must have /CENTRAL/ AC, one would assume. I'm not going to look for houses for you, except to note there are over 100 houses available right now under $5k in that region, all of which you could install central AC into for a couple grand if you wanted. If you MUST live in the San Mateo->Mtv corridor, with all those amenities, why would you imply you're looking to move? It seems like you know what you want, and are not willing to compromise on anything. Go forth and find that perfect rental, or if you don't make enough money to get it, work harder, or re-evaluate whats actually important to you.

You can’t install central ac for $2000 and certainly not in a rental.

$4k-$5k you can, and maybe even get a break on the rent. Add an extra month to getting your 30% down payment.

Where are these numbers coming from? Adding central air to an old home without it costs way more than that even outside of the bay area.

In 40 minutes you can get so far north that there are no cellphone towers, no lights and no pavement.

In 40 minutes driving north from Mountain View I think you'll be in SF at best.

You might make it to North Bay/Marin - which is true that it's rural, but it's not because it's a secret or far from humanity or anything. It just has the fiercest NIMBYs on the planet who are fine with all their services being provided by day laborers with 2 hour commutes.

Are we talking about SF or mountain view? 40 minutes north of SF is beyond Marin. Remember that this is about living comfortably on $5,000 per month for rent. That should get a pretty incredible place anywhere north of the golden gate bridge.

Eh, twice that ($230K) after 401K, insurance, and taxes is barely over $10K a month. Not sure how you got $115K being $9600.

We were talking net, after taxes, and after saving half of the net on a $400k salary.

$115000 / 12 months === $9583.33

They're talking about net, not gross.

Do people really bitching about ~barely~ over 10k USD a MONTH? There's a lot of people living on that or barely double that, for a year. Yes, even in/near SF. Quit with the damn entitlement.

You need $8-10k/mo for mortgage and property tax payments on a median home, so yes, the "barely" part is your entire discretionary budget.

Wasn't bitching, just not understanding how one could get $9600 from $115K.

After taxes 115k is more like 5-6k a month, depending on how much you’re putting into retirement accounts, healthcare, etc.

Parent was already talking about net, after taxes.