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Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by tptacek on Monday December 13, 2010 @04:29PM (#2002049)
If most of these private sector bailouts took the form of purchasing commercial paper, doesn't that imply that the Fed got paid back? None of those companies have defaulted.
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by GavinB on Monday December 13, 2010 @04:46PM (#2002093)
The article states that "none of the special lending programs has lost money," implying that they were all loans, and are all being paid back.

Bernanke and co deserve huge credit for sticking to their guns throughout the crisis, despite criticism from all sides and the inauguration of a new president.

Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by joe_the_user on Monday December 13, 2010 @06:17PM (#2002351)
I disagree. Giving credit is as much a bailout as giving cash.

What Bernanke and company did was breath enough life into the previous bubble to allow it to limp into survival.

The survival of the bubble is huge tax on any ongoing economic activity - essentially it's the same policy that lead to Japan's Lost Decade and indeed has lead to an economy that will be more or less permanently indebted to Wall Street.

I would admit that the bail-out was an inevitable result of the previous ten-twenty years of building too-big-to fail enterprises on who's survival the whole of Wall Street Finance was (correctly-so-far) bet. These bets were naturally helped by the large investment houses having interchangeable personel with the policy makers.

Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by bilbo0s on Monday December 13, 2010 @06:38PM (#2002410)
Actually, one of the things that bothers me most about all of the bailouts is that many of them are not being repaid. At least not in the way that some people are intimating.

HD, for instance is actually able to "repay" via the mechanism of a somewhat hastily arranged private sector bailout by Buffet's Berkshire and Davis. The reason everyone is obliged to try to prop HD up is because, through financial instruments of truly byzantine design, HD's customers were given loans for their motorcycles which were used as backing for certain securities. I won't get into the details, but the short story is HD customers won't repay their loans. Worst part...even if they had, it is not clear that the math would have worked out, and there may have been problems in any case.

This is why Buffet cautions us to "Beware geeks bearing formulas".

I'm not saying that what the Fed did was wrong...Rome was burning...I won't second guess them.

I do think people should realize that the problems are still with us however. What has happened is simply some creative juggling of the debts. This stuff takes time to unwind carefully, and even then some party will need to lose. It's just that there is a need to find more creative, and less obvious, methods of making that loser the Government, ie... tax payer. Because, that is the only party with the requisite resources.

And that is where the interesting stuff happens, engineering the repayment of the bailout funds. Sometimes it is repaid with securities of questionable value. Sometimes with hard assets, of dubious utility. They have even done some really brilliant things, like funneling stimulus funds to some of these companies...which were then used to pay back their bailouts. Of course, it looks like these companies paid the money back with revenues from new business.

This whole thing has been fascinating to watch. Again, I think the interesting parts were not the bailouts, but HOW the bailouts were being repaid.

Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by jameskilton on Monday December 13, 2010 @04:36PM (#2002063)
The article explicitly says that the Fed made money on every one of the commercial paper loans it gave out.

Keep the world economy fluid and be profitable in doing so, hard to complain about that one (though someone surely will).

Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by jimmyk on Monday December 13, 2010 @04:47PM (#2002095)
It's pretty easy to complain. When a group which operates with power granted to it by law but is uncontrolled by the public and which operates in great secrecy from the public starts giving special deals to private companies, it brings up a few concerns, including things like equal protection and governmental favors. Would a smaller motorcycle company have been given loans in critical times? Would a motorcycle company that didn't have political ties or which had certain political enemies have been given that loan?
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by tptacek on Monday December 13, 2010 @05:00PM (#2002129)
Would a company smaller than Harley Davidson get a "loan"? Maybe not. But if we're talking about commercial paper, we might not be talking about companies coming to the Fed hat-in-hand for a payoff; we may be talking about the Fed stepping in to fulfill a function that would under any ordinary circumstance be handled by the banking system. Remember, commercial paper apparently locked up solid during the crisis.
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by jimmyk on Monday December 13, 2010 @05:09PM (#2002154)
It's still not clear that another motorcycle company would receive the same deal as Harley Davidson. Surely Harley Davidson wasn't the only motorcycle company affected by the commercial paper freeze. Was it a good idea for the Fed to step in and fulfill that function? Maybe. But that doesn't mean it was ideal and there's nothing to complain about.
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by msbarnett on Monday December 13, 2010 @05:48PM (#2002283)
Complaints are only valuable insofar as they are constructive.

What should they have done differently? If bank lending really was frozen solid, is the argument that it would have been better for the Fed not to make these loans, and not turn a profit in doing so?

There's some vague hand waving here about competitors who may also have been affected by the credit freeze who may not have received similar details, but I'm not seeing any specifics.

Are you simply complaining that there may be something to complain about?

Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by jimmyk on Monday December 13, 2010 @07:55PM (#2002643)
I'm not certain anything could have been done differently. At least not at the late stage that the Fed had to act. Then again, I'm a programmer and not a central banker. I'm mainly complaining that the situation was allowed to get to the point where the Fed had to take these kinds of drastic and secretive actions and that they did it without any oversight.
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by joe_the_user on Monday December 13, 2010 @06:32PM (#2002387)
The "ordinary banking system" is not meant to be a public utility. Large or small, if the Fed is supporting the market, it is making decisions about resource allocation.

I'm not even always against the government making such decisions.

It's just the bailout involved the government making these decision in the worst possible circumstance, the least democratic, the least open and the most remunerative-to-bad-actors circumstances.

Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by nerfhammer on Monday December 13, 2010 @05:21PM (#2002190)
empirical evidence clearly shows that central bank independence is negatively correlated with inflation.
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by tptacek on Monday December 13, 2010 @05:22PM (#2002199)
Hard to navigate the possible implied double negative here; are you saying independent central banks tend to reduce inflation or increase it?
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by nerfhammer on Monday December 13, 2010 @11:40PM (#2003145)
nations with more independent central banks tend to experience less inflation.

severe inflation is virtually always conditional on the money supply being controlled by a legislature

Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by patrickgzill on Monday December 13, 2010 @04:57PM (#2002118)
Of course, the competitors of those companies that didn't get financing went under, or had far higher financing costs (that is, the rate they had to pay on the loan was far higher). Something to keep in mind.
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by joe_the_user on Monday December 13, 2010 @06:24PM (#2002370)
At the time, Warren Buffet commented on this perverse quality of the bailouts. His profitable companies couldn't get the credit which bankrupt-but-guaranteed companies could.
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by nerfhammer on Monday December 13, 2010 @11:43PM (#2003151)
He recently wrote a NYT op-ed praising it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/opinion/17buffett.html

Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by phlux on Monday December 13, 2010 @06:21PM (#2002364)
Correct. The issue to take, uh, issue with here is that while this may have had the positive position of keeping things afloat during such a crisis (however manufactured) - the real outcome is that it just further enforces, and more tightly knits, the oligopolistic system in place.
Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by richcollins on Monday December 13, 2010 @05:36PM (#2002244)
We don't know if they actually did get paid back. If they did, we don't know if it was from even more debt.

My guess is that it is all a ponzi scheme that won't hold up for more than a few years.

Re:Federal Reserve secretly bailed out large companies, incl... by cma on Monday December 13, 2010 @06:18PM (#2002356)
Why did the Fed take that risk rather than acquiring those corporations outright in bankruptcy?