News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by yogthos on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @07:53AM (#19980136)
Nobody is going to care about this in the long run, and it's pretty clear that China has already moved past US capabilities with tech like 5G. This will only spur more investment in domestic technology. China has a far better education system, a lot more people, and a government that's able to do long term planning. I expect them to leapfrog US within a decade or so.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by thkim on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @08:51AM (#19980590)
I doubt it. Chinese system only works when they are playing catch up. There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected. The system doesn't work when they need to push above everyone else.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by jdietrich on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @01:11PM (#19983209)
>There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected.

China has a different IP culture with some striking similarities to open source culture. Knowledge and expertise is shared through trusted peer networks (guanxi) for mutual benefit. I share what I know with you, on the expectation that you'll share what you know with me. Being particularly smart or innovative has real but intangible value, because it elevates your status within that peer network. Likewise, if you have a reputation as a parasite then you'll quickly find yourself being marginalised.

This culture powers a very rapid cycle of iterative improvement. You can't rest on your laurels, you can't milk one innovation for the duration of a patent, you can't use an IP portfolio to block new entrants to the market. You have to keep innovating to stay relevant, you have to build and maintain a reputation for quality and value with every product, otherwise someone will eat your lunch.

If Western companies can't get past the stereotype of Chinese companies as lazy copycats, they have no long-term future. Shenzhen is full of smart, motivated people who are moving up the value chain at an alarming pace with innovative products and an innovative way of doing business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4wbFdePb-k

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by rchaud on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:37AM (#19981633)
> There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected.

And yet mobile payments are integrated into Chinese e-commerce with the frictionlessness that Apple Pay and the others can only dream of.

Who defines what "pioneer" is? Is SV not "pioneering" because the vast majority of its companies are trying to be Salesforce and not Uber?

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by shuckles on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:47AM (#19981746)
Given the sorry technological state of mobile payments, such as their reliance on QR to authenticate, it’s more likely that quick adoption resulted from having no legacy POS solution and not superior innovation.

Unclear how QR has meaningfully less friction than NFC solutions.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by jdietrich on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @12:41PM (#19982946)
QR is fast, reliable and incredibly cheap to implement. It scans at a distance, with no significant chance of unintended transactions or MITM attacks. If I'm a roadside snack vendor and want to accept mobile payments, I don't need to buy some sort of NFC widget, I just need to print out a QR code and stick it on my cart. I can send 100rmb to a friend in a couple of seconds, without worrying whether their phone is NFC-enabled.

QR payment exemplifies the sort of innovation that is powering China's growth and that American companies profoundly fail to understand. It isn't sexy, but it works well enough to become ubiquitous. America is just barely catching up with a two generation old payment technology (chip & pin), while China have leapfrogged them with a worse-is-better solution.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by shuckles on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @01:29PM (#19983391)
"with no significant chance of unintended transactions or MITM attacks"

I have worked with anti-fraud teams at Alibaba and other unnamed large Chinese firms. This is extremely far from the truth, and shoulder surfing QR scanning scams have been in the national news in China many times. NFC tags are cheap and already being proposed for scooters, etc.

QR proliferation is again enabled mostly by the fact that there is no incumbency advantage, not because they're better innovations. Even you admit they aren't, and you don't seem to fully understand how bad QR is as a payment media. Imagine Square's uptake in American SMBs and then mentally map that almost every Chinese retailer is or recently was an SMB. That's simply what's happening.

I don't harbor the notion that the US is particularly advanced, especially in standardized infrastructure, but pointing to QR as an example of Chinese innovation is not convincing.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by baybal2 on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @02:01PM (#19983710)
I knew the man who was on the team that came with idea of using QR for payment. Their pretty much one and only point was to circumvent Apple's blockade of existing payment mechanisms.

And yes, Japanese mail order magazines came with idea of "offline Internet shopping" back in nineties, in era of flatbed scanners

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by shuckles on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @02:35PM (#19984089)
I thank him for keeping me gainfully employed for many months.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by 86carr on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @01:32PM (#19983417)
you failed to understand because you didn't pay attention to the context
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by dang on Thursday May 23, 2019 @03:05AM (#19989259)
Would you please stop posting uncivil and/or unsubstantive comments to HN? You've done it quite a bit already, and we're trying for better than that here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by gtirloni on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @01:04PM (#19983149)
Technology adoption is always easier when there aren't legacy systems.

Just see how long it's taking the US do adopt card chips & PINs while other countries that got their automated banking systems later are almost fully converted.

Mobile payments seem way easier to adopt in China and African countries because what existed before was so bad.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by stickfigure on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @02:09PM (#19983796)
Payments are a cultural problem, not a technology problem. There is absolutely nothing technological that prevents more sophisticated payments systems from being rolled out in the US, except that people don't want to use them.

This is a poor example. You would have been better off going with high-speed rail, although even that is mostly a cultural problem - the cost is not in trains, but land displacement.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by teddyh on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @01:34PM (#19983446)
> And yet mobile payments are integrated into Chinese e-commerce with the frictionlessness that Apple Pay and the others can only dream of.

That’s not a technology problem, that’s a political problem.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by phkahler on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:14AM (#19981398)
It's not a lack of incentives to innovate. Authoritarian management styles are IMHO a hindrance to innovation. There is a balance needed of course, but I think they're quite far from that.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by NotPaidToPost on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:31AM (#19981558)
Their "management style" is far from being authoritarian.

Chinese are extremely flexible and in China today you can innovate and just try about anything you want.

Of course there are red lines that are quite obvious, but beyond that it's actually often freer than in the West.

The Chinese system and culture are complex and cannot be brushed in black and white.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by sterlind on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:05AM (#19981285)
They've already pushed above US in fab tech and manufacturing. I'd bet that IP is well-protected within China, probably just by different means (e.g. closely-guarded secrets rather than patents.) There are many examples of Chinese bazillionaires who pioneered successful companies; their education system is superior to the US and they work harder.

We've gotten lazy.. I think we have this coming to us.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by yogthos on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @08:56AM (#19980628)
somebody's been drinking propaganda Kool-Aid
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by thkim on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @09:18AM (#19980832)
which part is propaganda?
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by yogthos on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @09:54AM (#19981172)
>There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected.

This is demonstrably false https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by thkim on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:06AM (#19981296)
You are confused by the "propaganda" you posted. Like I wrote in other thread, if the innovation comes at low cost, it might make sense to have no barrier to IP. Innovations in Shenzhen are low cost. It's vastly different from Samsung developing a new semiconductor manufacturing process.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by hrktb on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:17AM (#19981430)
It depends on cost of going first vs second. If it’s 5 years of R&D for the whole company it won’t be worth it.

If it’s low enough to be recouped while other players are trying to catch up, then IP or not companies will innovate.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by z2 on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @09:44AM (#19981062)
In Korea, Japan, and many similar tech powerhouses, the link was two ways. With maturing technology and a desire to guard it, they developed better policy for protecting IP rights.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by imtringued on Thursday May 23, 2019 @07:07AM (#19990555)
The incentive will be that key suppliers like ARM are forbidden from doing business with them.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by mark_l_watson on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @08:16AM (#19980316)
I tend to agree with you. I think you are saying that long term it is not a good idea to force economic adversaries to produce their own home grown tech. I have what is probably a bad analogy: it is like we are physically stronger now but we force economic adversaries to go work out at the gym and get in shape.
[dead]
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by throw667843 on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @11:52AM (#19982494)
> Edit: Why don’t you ask the millions in the re-education camps how advanced China’s education system is?

Would asking the millions in US prisions help us understand how innovative the US is?

What I find interesting is Xi was sent to a re-education camp as a teen and now he is the most powerful person in China.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by yogthos on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @08:47AM (#19980541)
Are we talking about the same China here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by NotPaidToPost on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @09:46AM (#19981086)
> Chinese culture does not place the same value on pioneering as the US.

That's clearly not true and is visible everywhere in China.

> is also incapable of tolerating diversity, dissent, and free thought.

That's not true.

Chinese culture tolerates diversity and uniqueness much more than Japanese culture, for example.

Discussions would gain in value if people commented on what they have at least a modicum of knowledge about and were open to learn others' cultures.

[dead]
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by komali2 on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:30AM (#19981546)
Chinese culture is as capable of tolerating diversity as any other - take a look at Taiwan. Same sex marriage legalized last week.

The political institutions in mainland China, on the other hand, are motivated by nationalist tendencies to foment hatred to Other.

Aaaand they definitely jail people just for religious group membership so they discriminatory as fuck.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by esyir on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @02:41PM (#19984142)
Eh, I don't think most people think of Taiwan when they say "Chinese culture", especially in the US. The mainland and Taiwan are far enough diverged that they should be considered two fairly distant clades.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by NotPaidToPost on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @02:52PM (#19984254)
Taiwan is 100% Chinese culture.

If people don't think of Taiwan when they say "Chinese culture" perhaps it's simply because they don't actually know about the topic.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by komali2 on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @05:08PM (#19985517)
I should clarify, this is fair. When I say "Chinese culture," I mean in the Epic sense - five thousand years of Chinese heritage and cultural tradition, mushed together from all the provinces and colonies. It's not a very well defined thing, so your comment is quite fair. It includes things like the use of the Han writing system, a similar linguistic heritage, certain medical beliefs, a smorgasbord of culinary traditions, a flavor of bureaucracy, etc.

With this in mind, the PRC has slowly been eroding many aspects of this "traditional" Chinese culture, such as the high respect paid towards intellectuals, teachers, and philosophers (through the use of reeducation camps and propaganda). Meanwhile, Taiwan starts to discover new things about the natures of traditional Chinese culture, like its compatibility with quite liberal concepts (same-sex marriage, as an example).

Many Taiwanese people will say their cultural identity aligns with the thousands of years of Chinese history, while rejecting the last 60 years or so of change on the mainland.

Nowadays someone might say "Chinese culture" and be taken to mean things like "tendency towards tyrannical capitalism masked as communism" or "tendency to imprison people for thought-crimes," so I appreciate you bringing this up.

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by aclsid on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @09:59AM (#19981218)
You seem to forget that China has like 50+ minorities that are encouraged to rise up in society, with preferred employment in the regions they are from or better chance to get at top universities. That some Uyghur have been trying to create domestic terrorism and that the central government response is blunt that is true, but the same can be said of how a lot of members of the Muslim community are treated in the West, especially in places like Gitmo. As for pioneering, just by seeing what happened with digital payments, I think you are in for a surprise. The worst thing one can do in general is think that you are so superior that no other people can overcome you. China suffered greatly from having such delusions in the past and so will the US if they don't get any wiser.
Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by komali2 on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:33AM (#19981584)
Perhaps there are a lot of upset Uyghurs because the Chinese government keeps throwing their people into internment camps and surveilling Uyghur people wholesale?

>Uyghurs in Xinjiang suffer under a "fully-fledged police state" with extensive controls and restrictions upon their religious, cultural and social life. In Xinjiang, the Chinese government has expanded police surveillance to watch for signs of "religious extremism" that include owning books about Uyghurs, growing a beard, having a prayer rug, or quitting smoking or drinking. The government had also installed cameras in the homes of private citizens.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs?wprov=sfla1

Re:ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei by patentatt on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:10AM (#19981345)
I wouldn’t say the US is absolutely superior in any way, if anything I’d place the progressive EU countries at the top of that list. There seems to be something rotting at the core of the US too. Just different. And while the US has its own atrocious human rights violations, so does China. And an Orwellian one-party government. We should not be defending totalitarian regimes of any kind.

And nice try trying to whitewash genocide and concentration camps, but I personally am steadfastly against fascism, for what it’s worth. You do you though.