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Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by akersten on Monday May 20, 2019 @01:57PM (#19963119)
To play devil's advocate - how do you determine what constitutes research to figure out what your "target audience" actually is, versus "privacy violation/GDPR no-no"?

I can imagine say, readers of Golf Digest are probably interested in golf. That's about the extent of the research that can be done by a traditional magazine. But there's an entire ad industry (for better or worse) to minimize 'wasted' impressions, and there's a large chasm between "male 25-35" and "specifically John Doe who looked at #9 clubs yesterday but hesitated to buy them, maybe we can win him over". Clearly the later example is prohibited in the spirit of the GDPR, but it's broad enough that it kills the former as well (and puts the extent of information available to the industry back to "golf digest readers play golf").

Not that I am particularly sympathetic to advertising agencies and the machinations of what online ad-tech has become, but I am sensitive to legislation that puts entire industries (I.e. real people's jobs) under a coal fire of "maybe we as a company literally have no viable path forward".

Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by quickben on Monday May 20, 2019 @02:03PM (#19963193)
Well, say that I want to know if you are interested in golf. Do you prefer me asking if you can fill in a questionnaire, or should I just pop where you live and take pictures from inside your house?

You really don't have to play devil's advocate, one of them is illegal.

If a company has no viable way forward, and has to resort to what the rest of us deemed illegal, it should stop existing. Not all companies should survive at any cost, that's not utilitiatian or desirable.

Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by akersten on Monday May 20, 2019 @02:17PM (#19963351)
Certainly, spying on someone's domicile is illegal. But it wasn't really the analogy I was going for.

I'm going to be purposefully obtuse and set up a contrived hypothetical, but to me it's really more like: you came to my store today, but I saw you at the golf shop yesterday. Maybe I watched you closely to learn exactly what you were thinking about buying. I happen to also sell golf things and maybe I want to peddle them to you. So I really go all in on my sales pitch and single you out while you're shopping. That's legal in meatspace. What makes "the same thing, but do it on a computer" illegal and unethical? I think it's a real important question for legislators to answer. Is it the scale? The fact that it can be automated? That we're really not actually comfortable with the meatspace example but didn't have a good way to ban it before?

Just food for thought. I'm mostly neutral on the GDPR, I appreciate the intention but I think we as a society need to define consistent expectations about privacy.

Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by karoofish on Monday May 20, 2019 @02:54PM (#19963746)
Following me around all over town like you did yesterday is considered stalking in my books.
Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by judge2020 on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:57PM (#19964448)
Google isn't following you, they're just in every store you walk into no matter what.

Imagine almost every store in your city installed something facial recognition (a la Amazon Go). This system, given to owners literally for free, was created by one company - Google - and allowed them to automatically see what products most people were looking at, what time they were doing so, and their demographic. As payment, Google also gets this data and is able to use it for their means.

Note: i'm just making this analogy. Google Analytics (probably) isn't being used for ad targeting.

Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by akersten on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:02PM (#19963820)
I was careful to say only that I saw you at the other store rather than implying I followed everywhere, since that's a fair line to draw and I wanted to avoid that particular connotation. But even still, hiring a private investigator is not illegal - it's just observational.
Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by llukas on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:23PM (#19964037)
What you describe is not what actually happens.

What actually happens is that your behavior (in store or not) is permanently observed all the time and ads are served whether you want it or not.

Imagine if in all shops, always you'd get jumped on by attendant trying to sell you things. And sometimes shop attendant would appear out of the blue.

What you're describing you can have today - just convince user to make account in your shop and give you permission to send offers. You can chase him any time you want.

Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by vonmoltke on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:34PM (#19965479)
> Imagine if in all shops, always you'd get jumped on by attendant trying to sell you things. And sometimes shop attendant would appear out of the blue.

As opposed to the half of them where it currently happens?

Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by llukas on Monday May 20, 2019 @08:14PM (#19966576)
50% better than on internet and they do not have my data.
Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by buckminster on Monday May 20, 2019 @02:47PM (#19963684)
> Maybe I watched you closely to learn exactly what you were thinking about buying.

If creepy shopkeepers following you round was a thing I suspect it would be illegal already.

Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by akersten on Monday May 20, 2019 @02:59PM (#19963798)
That's the precipice of the argument though, right? It's not illegal to observe interactions that you witness, or take notes about customers you saw shopping your competition.

You could even hire someone to wander around your competing stores and take lots of notes about the people they saw. "Red shirt guy shopping around for slim fit pants". Unlikely scenario, but legal to do and to use that information.

My whole thing is - what makes the scenarios different enough that one is prohibited and one is allowed? Certainly if we told folks they must forget their observations about others upon request, that would face some baseline rebuttal about their own autonomy.

Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by buckminster on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:29PM (#19964099)
The difference is that one is an actual problem and the other isn't. That's it. There isn't some deep legal theory driving lawmaking.
Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by earthboundkid on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:12PM (#19963915)
It wasn't necessary to make this behavior illegal before because it was impractical, but now that computers have made mass surveillance practical, it should be illegal.
Re:GDPR adtech complaints keep stacking up in Europe by TeMPOraL on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @11:19AM (#19970920)
> I am sensitive to legislation that puts entire industries (I.e. real people's jobs) under a coal fire of "maybe we as a company literally have no viable path forward".

Good that you're sensitive, but some jobs simply deserve to die. It happened in the past; behind leaded gasoline, or CFCs, or poisons sold as miracle drugs, were real people with real jobs. Advertising as an industry proved itself to have cancerous nature and grew to do incredible damage to people; it deserves to be burned down to the ground.