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Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by rchaud on Friday May 17, 2019 @10:14AM (#19939778)
I'm definitely on board with physical media. Almost all the vinyl I've bought comes with a download code anyway, and album artwork shines on a 12" x 12" canvas much more than it ever could on the tiny thumbnail you get on a music player app.

That being said, indie music stores like Bandcamp are digital only, but offer one-click DRM-free MP3 downloads for purchased songs/albums. The UX is focused on buying music first and supporting individual artists, rather than commoditizing their sound into an algorithmic playlist where they're lumped in with everybody else.

I honestly find Spotify and Apple Music bad for music discovery if your tastes aren't really adjacent to Top 40 (is that even a thing today?) style pop music. Back in the day, Last.fm used your iTunes/Foobar play history to show you bands you'd like. The algorithm was based on user-submitted tags, and the recommendations weren't limited to bands that had deals with the platform. I discovered a ton of new music across very different genres there. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the site is very active these days.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by mywittyname on Friday May 17, 2019 @11:01AM (#19940226)
> I honestly find Spotify and Apple Music bad for music discovery if your tastes aren't really adjacent to Top 40 (is that even a thing today?) style pop music.

I strongly disagree. Spotify has dramatically increased the variety of music that I listen to and introduced me to lost of tiny artists with great music.

I'm looking at the official chart top 40 online and have to go down to 7th place to find an artist I know (Taylor Swift). Only one song on my "Release Radar" is in the Top 40 list (Sixteen by Ellie Goulding).

I think you get what you look for with Spotify. If you listen to a bunch of Lady Gaga and Taylor Swift, you'll be recommended a things like Aria Grande and AVICII. But if you listen to An Horse and Houndsmouth then you'll aparently get recommendations for The Mountain Goats and Me Not You.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by task_queue on Friday May 17, 2019 @01:12PM (#19941555)
> I strongly disagree. Spotify has dramatically increased the variety of music that I listen to and introduced me to lost of tiny artists with great music.

I've used a number of music recommendation applications over the last decade.

With Spotify, I've noticed that it will become "stuck" in what I describe as similar artist troughs and valleys. In other words, the Spotify recommendation engine will pigeonhole your recommendations into certain subgenres, niches, or related artists more so than say Pandora or Last.fm would.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by myself248 on Friday May 17, 2019 @02:19PM (#19942159)
Yup, I've had to work around this. I'll pick a song I like, and do "song radio" to find more like it. But this makes a playlist which is basically 6 more similar artists, and no variety beyond that. But I want to branch out more, several steps beyond that. So I'll open a particular song from that playlist, go to "song radio" for that, and drag a bunch of songs I don't recognize back into the first playlist. Repeat this for a few more songs. Then once I've added a bunch more variety, do "playlist radio" again.

It's super obnoxious. I wish they had a slider for "be more adventurous" versus "hew close to the line". Do I remember Pandora having something like that?

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by kazga on Saturday May 18, 2019 @12:39PM (#19948332)
Spotify automatically creates a playlist from songs you've "liked" while they're playing on radio. So just start a certain song radio, like the kind of songs that go into the direction you want, and then start playlist radio on the "Liked from Radio" playlist.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by c0vfefe on Monday May 20, 2019 @01:50PM (#19963027)
You can simulate the slider behavior you describe by thumbing up everything for more variety, or thumbing down everything for more restriction.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by AwesomeFaic on Friday May 17, 2019 @01:54PM (#19941940)
Wholeheartedly agree. While my musical tastes are a bit all over the place, I can say that for the past month or so almost all my generated suggestion playlists consist of music I've not only listened to recently, but many I already liked and saved to my songs.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by RandallBrown on Friday May 17, 2019 @03:05PM (#19942490)
Spotify made a Tastebreakers playlist at the end of the year to recommend music I might like but is outside the genres I typically listen to.

I thought it was decent.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by h4waii on Friday May 17, 2019 @12:13PM (#19940944)
I can second this. Spotify has really helped me discover artists and bands I enjoy.

Years ago, I would have spent a non-zero amount of time linking through friends on Last.FM / Audioscrobbler. While this can be enjoyable, having it done by an algorithm is perfectly fine for me and I'm willing to pay for it.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by JohnFen on Friday May 17, 2019 @01:41PM (#19941830)
> Spotify has dramatically increased the variety of music that I listen to and introduced me to lost of tiny artists with great music.

I can't speak to Spotify, but many years ago I picked up some agent software that does a rough analysis of the music I enjoy, then crawls the web looking for music that resembles it. I use that for recommendations.

The software is a bit crude in its analysis, but I think that's a feature, not a bug, because it ensures that in the mix of music that I certainly will like are random tunes that I would never have thought to listen to, and often those turn out to be gems.

Most of the music the crawler finds is from indie artists that aren't well-known at all. When I find a new one that I enjoy, I make it a point to seek them out and buy their music directly from them.

Anyway, this has been my solution for about 15 years now, and it works great for me!

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by bobajeff on Friday May 17, 2019 @02:22PM (#19942176)
Sounds like you made a little Music Genome Project (by Pandora) like system. Lately I've been thinking about building something like that using machine learning and the hopes that it would scale better than Pandora's effort did.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by eppsilon on Friday May 17, 2019 @02:32PM (#19942257)
What's the name of this crawler software? Is it open-source?
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by JohnFen on Friday May 17, 2019 @04:15PM (#19943155)
It's a freeware script that I picked over a decade ago. I don't remember where I got it or what it's called, though. I'm not able to access the server it's on at the moment, but I'll comment here once I can.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by eppsilon on Friday May 17, 2019 @02:32PM (#19942250)
What's the name of this crawler software?
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by fatnoah on Friday May 17, 2019 @11:24AM (#19940464)
>I strongly disagree. Spotify has dramatically increased the variety of music that I listen to and introduced me to lost of tiny artists with great music.

This has been my experience as well.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by fjp on Friday May 17, 2019 @11:56AM (#19940786)
There was even a post on HN recently by a small artist talking about how the Discover algorithms brought listeners to his music that probably never would have found him otherwise.

I'm a big fan of the recommendation algorithms, so I set up a super basic site to wrap the Spotify API and let anyone get recommendations based on a single song link, rather than waiting for the Discover Weekly recs which are based off the blend of everything you listen to.

https://www.spotifinder.com/

Warning: the site is really basic right now

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by confounded on Friday May 17, 2019 @12:17PM (#19940981)
How does this compare to Spotify’s ‘Song Radio’ feature?
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by fjp on Friday May 17, 2019 @12:40PM (#19941237)
Honestly not sure since I don't know which APIs + secret sauce they put into Song Radio. I personally found Song Radio a little lacking - I never usually liked the most of the related songs, it didn't allow me to reshuffle the recommendations.

The /recommend API I wrapped for the site is similar, in that I let it spit out 12 "similar" songs, but I'll probably only like one or two songs, but you can also re-submit to shuffle the recommendations. The site is definitely more for active discovery than passively listening. I made the site because:

1. I wanted to more actively discover songs

2. I'm a big Spotify fan and was curious about the guts of the recommendations algorithm

3. I had never deployed an actual site (I exclusively do backend programming at work) so it was good learning experience about things like setting up a little static site

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by HeadsUpHigh on Saturday May 18, 2019 @04:20PM (#19949530)
Spotify has good suggestions. All you need to pick is the genre and then you go to song/playlist radio and you are good. I have found many bands and it often recommends bands with foreign languages( which I don't want). Then there is also your discover weekly which usually gives me at least 1 or 2 good songs.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by chaostheory on Friday May 17, 2019 @02:03PM (#19942029)
I can confirm this. Pre-Spotify it was either listen to top 100 music or use up a lot of time downloading VS tracks. Now most my of music doesn't even chart.

I neither have the space, budget, or time to trade my music in the cloud for physical media. My online collection is much larger than either my Mp3 or physical media collection.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by arebours on Sunday May 19, 2019 @01:25AM (#19951604)
I only keep Spotify because of "Discover Weekly" playlist generated every Monday based on your taste. The algorithm is truly incredible. There are weeks I find myself saving half of the songs.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by vectorEQ on Friday May 17, 2019 @11:58AM (#19940808)
found a lot of greeat stuff on spotify. it has never sent me some topN track as an ad... :s never. jut dont search for these things if u dont want it to suggest it to u ;)
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by skinnymuch on Friday May 17, 2019 @11:11AM (#19940320)
Spotify has never recommended a typical “top 40” mainstream artist to me. I looked at the top 100 Billboard list and while I recognize most of the artists, I don’t recognize any of the songs or albums since i don’t listen to those artists. The only exception is that I have listened to Offset’s songs recently.

The algo isn’t the best, but it’s not awful or just giving you the most popular music around. For example they never recommended Billie Eilish to me which would be a win for their algo not just recommending popular things that are sort of adjacent to music I’m listening to.

Checking the playlists Spotify created for me, they seem pretty decent. Nothing to do with top charting pop music.

Last.fm syncs with Spotify seamlessly too and many other platforms.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by aidenn0 on Friday May 17, 2019 @03:20PM (#19942621)
That's weird because for the first 6 weeks or so my "Discover Weekly" was all hits by bands I already knew. It did fairly quickly transition to deeper cuts and more obscure artists though.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by skinnymuch on Friday May 17, 2019 @05:45PM (#19943856)
Perhaps they did. I probably shouldn’t have been so certain in my wording. I likely did not check the Spotify playlists when I first got the service. It’s been a while now.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by hbosch on Friday May 17, 2019 @10:38AM (#19939996)
https://bandcamp.com/vinyl

Good news! Bandcamp is now offering artists an in-house vinyl pressing service.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by poelzi on Friday May 17, 2019 @10:25AM (#19939880)
Badcamp has physical media as well. It's up to the artist to produce and deliver them. Since I find mp3 unacceptable audio quality, especially on PA sound systems, I collect flac only. Many shops have a shitty policy on lossless, thanks bandcamp for being proper.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by orblivion on Friday May 17, 2019 @02:36PM (#19942284)
Bandcamp really is fantastic and will always have a special place for me. Just let me buy the stuff, choose my format, (even ogg!). Even let me sample it a good amount of times, and no obnoxious nonsense on their website. I hope they're doing really well.

That said, for a larger number of really major artists, I heard about something called HDTracks. I haven't tried them yet, but it seems that they sell FLAC in 24 bit audio.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by voldacar on Friday May 17, 2019 @06:57PM (#19944397)
Agreed. No flac = no buy
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by fatnoah on Friday May 17, 2019 @11:28AM (#19940504)
>Almost all the vinyl I've bought comes with a download code anyway, and album artwork shines on a 12" x 12" canvas much more than it ever could on the tiny thumbnail you get on a music player app.

My dad was huge into music and had a vinyl collection of 300-400 albums. As a kid, I used to check out the album covers and inserts as I ate breakfast. One that I distinctly remember is cover for "The Wall"

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by NeedMoreTea on Friday May 17, 2019 @02:38PM (#19942302)
Last.fm was ruined by, I think, CBS.

Their recommendations were miles ahead of anything Spotify, Apple or Google have ever managed. So last.fm killed off the radio, the streaming, then started playing random Youtube vids for each track - very often a poor rendition, or a cover etc.

I gave up years ago, but still miss that recommendation engine that drove the radio stations - I discovered so many brilliant new-to-me artists through that. Scrobbling listens into a different platform or recommendation engine is the least useful part of what they did.

I'm actually surprised the site's still there!

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by reciprocity on Saturday May 18, 2019 @12:04AM (#19945519)
I registered my account at last.fm in 2006 but stopped in 2015-2016 when they took away many of the most attractive and cool features of the site with the redesign despite an incredible amount of feedback on the forums (that were also taken away in favor of a survey...). I still can't believe what they've done. Last.fm has been neglected to a degree that surprises me to this day. I spent so much time posting in the discussion groups (also removed!), reading interesting journals about music that others had written (another feature removed). I've since switched to Libre.fm. But it won't ever be the same. I think it's hugely disappointing to see what was such a transformative service tossed to the wayside at the hands of CBS.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by logosmonkey on Friday May 17, 2019 @03:27PM (#19942686)
Yeah, I think after it sold to.. Jay Z or someone? It started going off the rails. Prior to that I loved that service though.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by rconti on Friday May 17, 2019 @01:22PM (#19941644)
The average person with a $10/month budget in 1997 (let's ignore inflation for now) is buying maybe 8-10 CDs a year. They're absolutely not long-tail discovering new stuff. They're buying what they hear on the radio.

It's basically an indefensible position that we're not discovering more and paying for more 'long tail' type media in the digital streaming era.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by xbkingx on Friday May 17, 2019 @08:34PM (#19944846)
As someone that was in college in 1997, I think that estimate is way low. I bought ~4 CDs per month and so did most of the people I knew. You're forgetting that we traded and sold back discs, and that music was more actively discovered. If you cared about finding music, you'd find local deals and make connections that could stretch a dollar, and most young folks budgeted much more than $10/month. You heard about bands from magazines, friends, a mention in an artist interview, etc, and it was not uncommon to buy more randomly. Hell, I've bought albums simply because the cover looked cool and it was in the right genre.

My point is that music discovery, like all recommendation systems right now, is severely lacking in what made media discovery more meaningful in the 90s - that controlled chaos that led to surprises. Now everything collapses towards the mean of mediocrity. Sure you discover more 'bands' now, but they're belting out the same tracks with an extra half beat or a pitch shift, so I hardly call it 'discovery'. Long-tail used to be more fringe, but high-quality and related, unlike now, where it's the worst within the technical bounds of the algorithm. We're discovering more within our local minima, which is technically discovering more, but in the most frightfully boring way possible.

I would not have been exposed to at least half of the music I regularly listen to now if I had something like Spotify back then. I tried to use Spotify, Pandora, and Google Music, but after a month they each felt like I was listening to generic music station #342398 and I went back to purchasing albums. It's weird when a single album can be more diverse than a station with nearly limitless tracks to pull from.

And don't even get me started on how recommendation services have killed the idea of an 'album' - maybe the most rewarding facet of music production basically wiped out in less than a decade.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by rchaud on Friday May 17, 2019 @04:35PM (#19943326)
In 1997, I'd wager more people listened to college radio than they do now, simply because there weren't as many alternatives.

Their bookstores would likely also have had a few rock/alternative/electronic music magazines to offer choices outside of Top 40.

If they were lucky, they might also have had an indie music store in town where you could browse through the stacks and make conversation with the proprietors who'd turn you on to new stuff.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by devb on Friday May 17, 2019 @10:29AM (#19939921)
> indie music stores like Bandcamp are digital only

Many bands on Bandcamp offer bundles of vinyl, CDs, t-shirts, etc. with the digital download. One example off the top of my head:

https://filthyfriends.bandcamp.com/album/emerald-valley

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by PeanutNore on Friday May 17, 2019 @11:17AM (#19940388)
I listen pretty much exclusively to extreme metal and punk rock and Google Play Music has been doing an incredible job of recommending new music that I enjoy.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by Eleopteryx on Friday May 17, 2019 @12:18PM (#19940989)
I actually sent a suggestion/complaint to Google regarding their recommendations. If I start a radio station based on e.g. a 2009 indie pop song I'll mostly hear songs made around that year, usually like 2006~2013, with newer songs just absent. If I make a station based on a 2019 indie pop song, for the most part it's all the same bands as the 2009 playlist, it's just that the songs are more recent. I don't really like this because it forces me into a time capsule instead of just playing indie pop songs from any decade.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by shosko on Friday May 17, 2019 @01:28PM (#19941699)
DJs and Soundcloud help me discover new music more than iTunes or Spotify ever could. Human curation is better than algorithms. Bandcamp is consistently the best place to buy music, both high quality digital and vinyl.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by millzlane on Friday May 17, 2019 @01:42PM (#19941841)
>I honestly find Spotify and Apple Music bad for music discovery if your tastes aren't really adjacent to Top 40 (is that even a thing today?) style pop music.

I couldn't agree more. I have found new artists that I probably wouldn't have listened to with both spotify and last fm. But with last.FM radio alone I have discovered more genres.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by jartelt on Friday May 17, 2019 @11:22AM (#19940435)
Agree that the Spotify discovery is bad. I find myself going back to Pandora, which is sad considering I have Spotify premium.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by kyle-rb on Friday May 17, 2019 @01:57PM (#19941975)
Discovery on Spotify isn't terrible, but I think Pandora is just really good at that since that was part of its original purpose with the music genome stuff. Plus it aims for more variety, avoiding playing a single artist too heavily.
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by asteli on Friday May 17, 2019 @04:37PM (#19943340)
I posted this down below, but I want to share my personal method of music discovery.

Pick a few physical music venues nearby that you like, and make a list of all the artists playing shows there for the next month or two. Then take a song by each artist and chuck it into a playlist (could be youtube or bandcamp or spotify, whatever). Listen, and when you hear something you like, maybe listen to their latest release! If it's good, you've just found an artist you like, and guess what? They're playing a show nearby soon.

Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by wyclif on Friday May 17, 2019 @07:03PM (#19944430)
As far as I can tell, Last.fm is still quite active, but not as much as it was at its peak. I wonder if that's what you meant, or something else. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned it's active: https://www.last.fm/user/wyclif
Re:Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algor... by amerkhalid on Friday May 17, 2019 @02:51PM (#19942397)
I still buy CDs but mostly for artwork and nostalgic value. I remember going to friends' places and browsing their CD collections and trying various CDs.

It is rare these days to browse anyone's music collection on their cellphone. The most we do is just search for music we want to hear or want our friends to hear.