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Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by mcv on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:33AM (#19927710)
Money for luxury things doesn't do nearly as much as money for necessities, because luxury things are optional. The person with the money can easily decide to postpone the purchase and save the money instead. Or spend the money abroad, which doesn't do much for the local economy.

People who are short on necessities will immediately buy them when they get the money for them, because they are necessities. Money for the poor is an extremely reliable way to stimulate the economy, much more so than money for the rich.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by Chris2048 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @08:19AM (#19928224)
Maybe saving money is as important as "stimulating" the economy? Maybe the type of economy is important too, i.e. luxury items that push the envelope wrt novel manufacturing methods or R&D
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by mcv on Thursday May 16, 2019 @09:15AM (#19928701)
Maybe, or maybe not. I think the first concern is that everybody should be able to eat, have a roof over their heads, and have the freedom to focus on other things. I think it's definitely healthy for a society if the poor are able to save some money so their life doesn't immediately collapse on a rainy day. Once that's sorted, I'm all for investigating all the maybes.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by Chris2048 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @09:45AM (#19928966)
Depends. Maybe not all "poor" are the same. Some choose not to stay in school, what do you do then? Guarantee food and shelter anyway? Why work my way up through the humiliation of McJob when I can stay home and prove my worth in Xbox?
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by mcv on Thursday May 16, 2019 @09:58AM (#19929088)
Are we still talking about stimulating the economy? Then yes, making sure they have money to spend will ensure they spend it, increase demand, and grow the economy.

But yes, reject humiliating jobs. I'm not sure why you'd actively want people to be miserable.

But if you want a bigger picture: create better opportunities, and make sure they are accessible to everybody. The whole reason people withdraw from society into either drugs or gaming or whatever, is that, from their perspective, society has nothing to offer them but humiliation and misery. Heaping more humiliation and misery on them is not going to fix anything.

And if rich kids drop out of school and spend their time partying, they're also guaranteed food and shelter, and quite a bit of wealth on top of that.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by Chris2048 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @10:32AM (#19929391)
This feels like the glass-makers fallacy

If the money if free, distributing it will stimulate the economy. But since that money comes from somewhere, any growth due to that distribution competes with the lack of growth due to wherever you took it from,

e.g If you took it via taxes, people have less money to spend because of the higher taxes.

If you took it from the rich because they don't spend it on things, they also don't invest it, meaning banks have less capital.

> reject humiliating jobs

serving fast food is humiliating to people with people who think of themselves as better

> create better opportunities, and make sure they are accessible to everybody.

like free school? and those people who choose not to attend?

You seems to think the only problem is lack of opportunity, it isn't. For example, if a community has a drug problem, a better economy isn't going to fix that.

> The whole reason people withdraw from society

people don't withdrawn from society fully, they just stop contributing to it. They need society for food, shelter etc. You are suggesting they get these things unconditionally, ensuring their withdrawal is indefinitely viable.

And drug addicts aren't simply poor, that's an entirely different issue.

> And if rich kids drop out of school..

So what? The state, and by extension the taxpayer, don't fund that, so it's none of our business how that works out. The state shouldn't micromanage all of society to ensure equal outcomes for all, and if it did it would need far more power than it has now.

A "rich" kid isn't guaranteed anything beyond what their rich parents decide, and I'm not going to tell someone how to spend their money.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by mcv on Thursday May 16, 2019 @11:16AM (#19929769)
In this case, we're comparing giving money to the rich to giving it to the poor. It's coming from the same place in both cases. In this case, it's quite likely that the financial problems of the poor people in the company has been hurting their productivity (the article doesn't really go into that, but it starts with that the company was stagnating). For the rich, their growth is just a number; they don't really need that extra money for anything, because they already have plenty of it.

Of course in general, it's best to use the money wherever it will give you the best growth. I think that in general, that will be where the most growth is needed; where the most shortages are.

> serving fast food is humiliating to people with people who think of themselves as better

Well, you were the one calling it humiliating. I've got nothing against serving fast food, but in general, I think jobs shouldn't be humiliating, and I feel strongly that people should have the freedom to reject humiliating jobs. A job is a major part of your life. It shouldn't be sucking your soul out, it should stimulate and/or empower you.

> You seems to think the only problem is lack of opportunity, it isn't.

It's not the only problem, but a lack of opportunity is absolutely a problem. And a very real one, for a lot of people.

> For example, if a community has a drug problem, a better economy isn't going to fix that.

No, but that drug problem comes from somewhere, and humiliating or punishing people isn't going to fix it. If anything, that seems likely to make it worse.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by hedonic_ on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:10AM (#19927625)
Yes and no. Give someone earning $7.50/hour more money and it gets spent and put back into the economy like you said. Give someone earning a base salary of say 500k more money and it gets put into a bank to earn them even more money, taking it out of the equation.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by slv77 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @08:02AM (#19928129)
Some ideas for the US investor.

Invest the money with a payday lender to loan it out to your under-paid employees so you can grab even more of their paycheck!

Buy a block of housing that houses your under-paid employees and raise rents so you can get even more of their paycheck!

Invest in sub-prime auto loans so that your underpaid employees can get to work. Make money on them while the commute! Of course make sure that you diversify if you need to lay them off!

Invest is short term unsecured credit card debt of your under-paid employees. To goose the returns put them on a high deductible health plan and leverage what you lend to them with their own health account savings (free money). If you are generous give them a 401K match (which is required by law if you have the same) and leverage up using that money too!

Many of your underpaid employees will be on food stamps and located in areas without those fancy suburban grocery stores. Invest a quicky-mart and rake in the food stamp money at high margins! Don’t forget the liquor and lotto tickets as income boosters! If you underpaid employees can’t numb at least you can sell them a bit of hope!

Lastly have you thought about the medical field? A lot of your under paid employees are on Medicaid and I’m hearing good things about insulin!

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by kthejoker2 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @08:13AM (#19928186)
The return of the company store ...
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by acct1771 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @10:08AM (#19929179)
...return?

Walmart, Amazon.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by adrianN on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:31AM (#19927699)
I don't support trickle down economics, but it's not the case that money in banks is just sitting around in a vault. The banks actually do stuff with the money. For example it's loaned out to real world businesses.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by neffy on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:08AM (#19927844)
No it's not - banks are statistical multiplexers.

They don't take money and lend it out. They create money, lend that, and then remove that money as the capital (loan amount) is repaid - or when the loan goes into default.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by mschuster91 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:35AM (#19927718)
> The banks actually do stuff with the money. For example it's loaned out to real world businesses.

Traditional loan business is not the core business of banks any more, at least not where the big profits come from.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by C1sc0cat on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:45AM (#19927757)
Hypothetically here you would invest the 500k which is putting money into the economy.

Your right that socially its better for society for a lower paid person to have the $ how ever certainly in the UK some of that increase would get clawed back by reduction in benefits.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by ForHackernews on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:55AM (#19927787)
How does buying $500k worth of stock ("investing the money") stimulate the economy? Haven't I just purchased a paper asset from the seller? I guess you could argue that the seller who liquidated their position is now free to spend that cash on something productive.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by formercoder on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:50AM (#19928070)
That’s the argument for buybacks and dividends. If companies don’t have any NPV positive projects to take then the cash must go out to shareholders who do.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by C1sc0cat on Thursday May 16, 2019 @12:31PM (#19930448)
Aside from the fact that companies need investors there is also the question of investing in IPO's etc.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by skohan on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:11AM (#19927868)
As far as investments, I'm no economist, but I'm skeptical that the money spent purchasing securities has an equal impact as someone buying goods and services locally. It seems like a disproportionate amount would go right back to other members of the investor class, who are going to use it on other securities, or else high-margin luxury items, and very little of that is actually going to escape that bubble.

I think you could argue that replacing benefits with direct income is still a "win" for society. If they're able, it's more efficient for people to meet their own needs than to be provided for through a bureaucratic process with lots of administrative overhead.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by erfgh on Thursday May 16, 2019 @08:28AM (#19928289)
Nobody puts that money in a bank. They invest it in a mutual fund or similar, so it ends up funding businesses and their employees.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by Droobfest on Thursday May 16, 2019 @09:48AM (#19928998)
Investing in a mutual fund only directly funds other shareholders
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by dmos62 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @08:15AM (#19928201)
This shouldn't be downvoted, because Trickle-down economics, or rather politics, is a big part of today's world, and it needs to be discussed. It tries to justify socioeconomic stratification and deregulation, which is nuts in this late-stage capitalist society. It shouldn't be supported, in my opinion at least, but it should be critiqued and discussed. It's too important to be downvoted out of the thread.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by tinus_hn on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:25AM (#19927961)
‘Trickle down’ theory is obviously just a bullshit excuse for people enriching themselves but companies can’t exist without investors.