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Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by throwaway66666 on Friday May 10, 2019 @01:51PM (#19880371)
Unprofitable companies are the only ones that really benefit from IPOs.

An IPO is basically a way for the company to raise money, but tis time straight from the public. Usually when it gets harder and harder for them to attract private investors. The IPO listing basically guarantees that they won't take the public's billions and run.

Successful companies with perfect cash flows (think of Github, Valve, IKEA) always try to remain private. Because they have nothing to gain by raising more money. They can give their employees good bonuses and maintain control of the company.

This is by design. In Silicon Valley we are obsessed with them because they are the only meaningful exit for common employees (take the money and run mentality). The rest of the world doesn't care much because they see them for what they are.

Of course. Startup employees do not know they can sell their 'private' stock already, today. However, they need permissions to do so from the company's board (their answer will be NO. Here, saved you from asking. Or maybe they will offer to buy back the stock with shitty terms), and can only sell them to an accredited investor and not random people/public.

Many companies would be ran better if they remained private (think of Facebook, which now has investor pressure to increase the price, which results in careless decisions about data handling, privacy etc).

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by hunter23 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:14PM (#19880610)
This is incorrect. There are lots of cases where profitable companies want to IPO. Specifically the public markets are where you go when you need to raise money at significant levels. Nowadays this happens less often as their are bigger and bigger private investors (so you can raise billions in private markets). However there is still a point at which you may need to go public for fundraising.

You are making a mistaken assumption that only unprofitable companies need to fundraise, there are lots of profitable companies that want to raise capital to fund future growth (and their current cash flows aren’t enough).

Also I am very surprised that you named Github as a well run private company. As far I know, they were definitely not profitable (their spend was crazy) which is part of the reason the board took the acquisition offer from Microsoft. I really don’t think they are a good example of a well run private company.

You are correct that only companies that want capital IPO but that is by definition as an IPO is a capital raise. I believe that direct listing is an exception to this.

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by throwaway66666 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:34PM (#19880810)
You are correct. There are many cases where fundraising for successful companies is needed. From liquidity, to gathering funds to fuel new ventures. Acquiring competitors, etc.

My assumption was that troubled ones also need it. So we should not be surprised that see so many controversial IPO listings recently.

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by nradov on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:41PM (#19880864)
Back in the days before the first Internet boom, most major stock exchanges required a company to be profitable for several quarters before an IPO.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by pcl on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:44PM (#19880908)
> Nowadays this happens less often as there are bigger and bigger private investors (so you can raise billions in private markets)

Arguably, the reason IPOs happen less now than 20 years ago is because of the increase in regulatory requirements (particularly in the US), and the increase in available funding is a result of that.

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by maerF0x0 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:56PM (#19881054)
> raise money at significant levels.

Define significant. I see softbank throwing billions at tech companies.

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by eigenvalue on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:01PM (#19880477)
This is only true in general for tech companies because they tend to be "capital light"-- they don't require a lot of traditional capital assets such as factories and warehouses. Generally, the only tech companies which require a lot of capital are the ones that are burning cash and need to replenish their coffers. But IPOs can greatly help jump-start the growth of more traditional companies which are often constrained by lack of cash as they grow sales organically, even if they are quite profitable on a net income basis. This allows these companies to open new plants and stores and to hire people to develop new products. As much as tech increasingly dominates the economy, it's far from the only industry that matters.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by hayksaakian on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:04PM (#19880503)
Do IPOs usually generate new funding for the IPO company?

IPOs seem serve as an `exit` for private investors who bought in while the company was private?

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by eigenvalue on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:05PM (#19880529)
They do both. It's relatively rare for a company to IPO without raising fresh capital for the company. There are however often "secondary" share sales where only "selling shareholders" (rather than the company) receive the proceeds.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by buzzdenver on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:49PM (#19880965)
An IPO with out raising fresh capital is called a Direct Listing. Slack did it not long ago.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by usrusr on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:15PM (#19880623)
> It's relatively rare for a company to IPO without raising fresh capital for the company.

An IPO without raising new capital would make it more difficult to answer what every buyer should ask: "why are they so eager to sell?" It's a variation of plausible deniability.

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by gmmeyer on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:45PM (#19880924)
It's what Spotify did, I think it's a decent question but it also allows for liquidity, especially since it's such a big part of comp it's not unreasonable to list
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by taytus on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:04PM (#19880501)
I was reading your comment and nodding until this part:

>think of Facebook, which now has investor pressure to increase the price, which results in careless decisions about data handling, privacy etc

Trying to frame FB as a "bunch good kids under pressure" is a monumental mistake. Data has always been their business, selling ads and don't giving two shits about security is part of their DNA

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by kgwgk on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:01PM (#19880465)
Profitable companies may also want to raise money, to invest it in their profitable business opportunities and generate even more profits.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by rudolph9 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:56PM (#19881048)
Facebook voting rights are in the hands of their dear-leader and no amount of investor pressure has direct impact on the decisions made by the company.

> This is because of Facebook's dual-class share structure. Class B shares have 10 times the voting power of class A shares, and it just so happens that Zuckerberg owns more than 75% of class B stock. It means he has more than half of the voting power at Facebook.

https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-investors-will-vote...

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by rudolph9 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:57PM (#19881058)
Maybe that logic applies to other companies but Facebook is probably a bad example.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by kayoone on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:37PM (#19880841)
It's not that black and white. A lot of profitable companies IPO to fuel aggressive expansion in new markets which would otherwise not be possible and could harm them in the future. Google was profitable when they IPOd https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000119312504...
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by kortilla on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:17PM (#19880630)
>think of Facebook, which now has investor pressure to increase the price, which results in careless decisions about data handling, privacy etc

This doesn’t follow at all. Zuck still has control and they were careless before being public. I would suggest being public is the only thing that puts them in the spotlight for their shitty practices.

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by mojomark on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:16PM (#19880624)
> Unprofitable

I hear you, but...

Meh, they say invest in companies who make products you use. I use the shit out of Uber and I don't plan on stopping even if the price goes up a bit. Now, I'm upper middle class, and I understand this isn't everyone's mindset, so I have no idea how the rest of the world feels.

However, there are locatios, like my crappy hometown where I grew up not so fortunate circumstances, where hailing a cab simply wasn't an option. If you want to have fun at a bar, you're driving home drunk.

Bottom line, I believe in this product and I only see it growing in importance - regardless of who is at the helm. That's my gut feel, and that's why I bought in a little today.

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by vikramkr on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:31PM (#19881412)
Do they actually say that? You should only invest in companies you understand, and being a user if the product helps with that, but that's a metric for weeding out companies, not building a portfolio (i.e. if you dont understand them dont invest, but if you do it doesnt mean you should). The only real metric for investing is if you believe the expected value of the asset to you is greater than the market price. For example, I used moviepass, but I would never have invested in them because they were selling a dollar for 25 cents (which is why I used them...).
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by zackbloom on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:18PM (#19880647)
Who says to invest in companies who's products you use? That does not seem like great advice. You should invest in companies who are undervalued by the market in your opinion, not just because you like the product but because you think they have a good business around it.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by stevenwoo on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:26PM (#19881362)
I believe it's a paraphrasing of Warren Buffett's "invest in what you know". https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/latest-berkshire-h...
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by triangleman on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:52PM (#19880995)
I think Peter Lynch said that.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by baby on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:20PM (#19881296)
Uber is definitely undervalued on HN. They have so much more markets to enter.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by AnimalMuppet on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:55PM (#19881637)
If your business loses money on each transaction, entering more markets isn't going to save you...
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by baby on Friday May 10, 2019 @09:03PM (#19883754)
They are expanding agressively, that adds to the cost, they could also increase prices. I'm not worried at all.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by whycombinater on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:46PM (#19881570)
You are correct if your goal is to maximize the amount of money you have.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by smallbigfish on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:08PM (#19881173)
First rule is: invest in something you understand.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by duxup on Friday May 10, 2019 @01:57PM (#19880428)
I'm not really sure about that.

Just like taking investor money at anytime it can be a way to get extra cash to continue to build the company quickly.

The IPO system is wonky and there are bad examples but I don't think your rule makes sense.

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by jorblumesea on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:23PM (#19880706)
Do you really think FB's problems are because of public investors? Zuck has never cared about user privacy. On the contrary, he has always display a "privacy is dead" mentality.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by acchow on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:40PM (#19880855)
False.

Silicon Valley is obsessed with them because it's the only place where hundreds or thousands of employees are given significant equity; many of them have $100k - $1 million in vested equity 1-3 years into the job. You don't want that frozen in a private company indefinitely. You want liquidity to use it and to diversify your holdings. This doesn't mean you think the company will fail and you just want to "take the money and run".

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by Duhck on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:01PM (#19880469)
Needing to raise cash to operate or expand, and positive cashflow arent mutually exclusive ideas.

A company can be profitable and still need more working capital to expand.

That being said, I don't know what to make of Uber, Lyft and WeWork (future) IPO's yet, but I am highly skeptical

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by hef19898 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:22PM (#19880693)
I assume an IPO is the easiest way foe private share holders to cash out. Then again, unless you are really asset heavy (manufacturing, etc..), I agree it might be a sign that less dumb money from the later rounds with dumber money. Or the company is burning cash faster than it is generated.

Case in point, when you cash flow positive and idealy profitable even banks would happily finance your expansions. So unless as a company you want to be growing really fast, I don't see the added benefit of an IPO other than cash flow issues. Add too that the increased scrutiny by the authorities and I d prefer to be private.

Of course the same argument could be made the other way round.

Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by acjohnson55 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:10PM (#19880570)
Facebook was extremely cavalier about data handling and privacy well before they were public.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by radicaldreamer on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:04PM (#19880504)
A lot of sweeping assumptions and generalizations going on in this one...
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by diminoten on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:14PM (#19880611)
No offense, but of course IPOs benefit unprofitable companies. The entire point of an IPO is to raise capital to invest back into the company. Why would you ever have an IPO if you didn't have a plan for that cash, and why would you have an IPO if you had all the cash you needed?
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by scarface74 on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:24PM (#19881333)
Because the initial investors want to sell their ownership stake.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by diminoten on Friday May 10, 2019 @05:18PM (#19882342)
That isn't a valid "business" reason, though.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by scarface74 on Friday May 10, 2019 @05:29PM (#19882415)
The investors own the business. Why would they be worried about the business and not just what is in their own best interest.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by diminoten on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @04:50PM (#19913771)
They are, but what's in their best interest may be growing the company, not in cashing out immediately.
Re:Uber opens at $42 per share by moorhosj on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:46PM (#19880931)
One only needs to look at Levi’s IPO in March to prove this theory wrong.