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Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by LeoPanthera on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @12:37AM (#19846635)
"Who is this?"

"Hello Uncle Steve!"

"Do you have any idea what time it is?" Uncle Steve asks, sounding as if he is still asleep.

"Of course I do, and so do you! It's 04:25 on Saturday... everywhere." I add a dramatic emphasis to the last word.

"But do you know what 04:25 on Saturday signifies in Melbourne?"

"Breakfast time?"

I can actually hear him rubbing his eyes.

"We don't centre our waking/sleeping cycle on solar noon, fool nephew," Uncle Steve explains. "We centre the school day on solar noon. In countries above and below certain latitudes, where seasonal variation in the amount of daylight is significant, it's important for there to be the maximum amount of light when children are going to school in the morning, and coming home from school in the afternoon. Here in Melbourne, solar noon is about 10:30 Standard Time, so the average school day is timetabled from 07:00 to 14:00, and a typical working day runs from about 07:00 to 15:00. That means that on a working day, I get up at 05:00, at the earliest."

"Ooogh. Sorry. That's about two hours later than I reckoned," I tell him.

"I know," he replies.

"I didn't know you did that in Australia," I say. "That deliberate misalignment of the diurnal routine. Does every country do it?"

"No. Equatorial countries don't, because they get plenty of light all year round. Temperate countries do, though. The technical term for it is 'daylight saving'."

I blink.

"And 05:00 is when I get up on a working day," Uncle Steve continues. "On Saturdays, I like to lie in. Until solar noon, if possible. That's more than five hours from now."

I'm beaten. "I guess I have no idea what 04:25 on Saturday signifies. It used to be pretty universal, but now where I live it signifies a time to go out and get drunk..."

"And where I live," Uncle Steve says, "it signifies a hangover."

"The same time of day on the same day of the week means many different things to different people all over the world," I say. "Too many to remember them all."

"Yeah," Uncle Steve grumbles. "It would be neat if there was a lookup table for that kind of thing."

https://qntm.org/abolish

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by teekert on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @02:58AM (#19847198)
Taps name of Uncle Steve: Siri pops up: "Are you sure? Most people are asleep in the location of Uncle Steve, the sun will be up in 2 hours."

When I plan meetings with colleagues around the globe, Outlook corrects my time but it also (in light gray) indicates the typical workday in the meeting planner. Very handy.

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by 0-_-0 on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @08:51AM (#19848875)
Let's invert the argument:

Before abolishing unified time

I want to call my Uncle Steve in Melbourne. What are the working hours there? Google tells me it is currently 7:00 to 15:00 there. It's probably best not to call right now.

After abolishing unified time

I want to call my Uncle Steve in Melbourne. When are the working hours there? it's 8:00 to 16:00, same as it is here, of course! Same as it is in New York, Bangalore and Hawaii, at the South Pole and on the Moon.

You get the point...

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by reallytho9 on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @10:55AM (#19850030)
The difference is that as soon as you know what time it is in Melbourne, you know if you can call Uncle Steve. Regardless, you have to know where the sun is, because that determines whether or not Uncle Steve is awake (most likely). But it’s much easier to find his timezone offset and figure that out than figure out if the sun is up there (which incidentally, timezones actually allow you to do).

It’s much easier if noon is noon around most of the world (obviously it gets more meaningless the further north and south you get), as opposed to always having the same time and having to figure out where the sun is.

This is why one world timezone is a terrible idea. It makes some calculations simpler, but it otherwise royally fucks with how humans work, and humans are much more concerned with where the sun is.

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by Razengan on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @03:14PM (#19852501)
All of that assumes that we would still be using old-fashioned phone calls.

Why, when analyzing some proposed future "improvement", do we assume that everything else will/must remain unchanged?

The general case with civilization and technology is that progress happens when multiple factors improve independently but happen to complement each other in tandem.

Society is already moving away from blind phone calls. People no longer seem to appreciate calls that aren't announced via text beforehand.

In the "future", everyone would/should have rich presence and status messages to see when one is asleep, busy, or available, and interact with them accordingly.

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by homonculus1 on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @04:20PM (#19853087)
Live posting private information, like whether you're currently in a vulnerable state like sleep, would be a huge safety concern for many people. Making this data non-public would completely defeat the purpose.

Plus, how on earth is constantly updating your status more convenient than changing the clock twice a year? Who is actually going to bother to do that? What problem does this solve exactly?

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by Razengan on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @04:39PM (#19853241)
• It doesn't need to say "sleeping", just "away", "busy" or "offline" like on most messaging services now and since forever.

• Sleep/availability detection is already automatic and can be improved.

• Extra details don't need to be public, only shared with [specific] friends. Unexpected calls from unknown contacts wouldn't be welcome anyway.

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by fouc on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @08:18AM (#19848709)
Interestingly I found the comments of that linked page convinced me for the 'single timezone' argument.

Particularly the comments by MichaelSzegedy and Tab Atkins.

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by mixmastamyk on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @01:17AM (#19846807)
So instead of the time there you’d look up the sun position. Not worse just different.
Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by Entalpi on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @02:28AM (#19847075)
It is worse.

It changes the meaning of time that we all use to communicate.

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by aeternus on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @04:58PM (#19853387)
Why is solar position so important compared to ability to coordinate simultaneous events across wide geographies? It would be much simpler to have a globally consistent definition of time/simultaneity and treat other things (like solar position, working hours, etc) as scheduling constraints.

We put up with crazy things in an attempt to match solar position. The meaning of time we all use is flawed when I can hop on a plane and go back to yesterday. That's quite inconsistent with the accepted definition of time as unidirectional.

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by mixmastamyk on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @07:35PM (#19854474)
I agree, though it would make New Years Eve less fun away from the prime meridian. Probably worth it.
Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by bluGill on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @09:38AM (#19849165)
I talk about morning, noon, afternoon, evening, and night. Those are solar concepts and need not be related to the clock.

Edit: originally said they need to be related which is opposite of my intent

Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by reallytho9 on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @10:57AM (#19850049)
They have to be related because that’s what humans are concerned with. Timekeeping is meaningless if noon for you means the sun is up and noon for me means it’s the dead of night. What purpose does that serve? Timekeeping is all about where the sun is, because humans still have sleep/wake cycles, and most people obviously want to do things when the sun is up.
Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by bluGill on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @11:08AM (#19850181)
Noon to me means the sun is directly overhead. When I travel the clock time of noon changes. Noon is traditionally 12:00, but it need not be. I care about local noon because adjusting my life around the local sun is a useful thing - it is very difficult to not be awake when the sun is up and sleep at night. Even if you travel a long distance you body will want to adjust to local sun patterns over the course of a month.
Re:Map of Proposed US Time Zone Changes by mixmastamyk on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @03:58AM (#19847408)
That’s the definition of different.