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Re:JMAP: A modern, open email protocol by tialaramex on Monday May 06, 2019 @03:34PM (#19842936)
The IETF's standardisation process almost can't help but improve whatever it is you're trying to standardize. Not only are you being shepherded by peers with expertise in whatever corner of networking you're excited about (the Area Directors for whichever Area your Working Group was assigned to) but you're obliged to put up with anyone who cares to offer an opinion mailing it in. Looking for consensus isn't a good way to run a restaurant kitchen, but it may be the best possible way to agree network standards. Even when contributors say something you believe to be completely stupid figuring out how to put into words exactly why they're wrong is likely to be instructive, and as often as not they're not /quite/ as wrong as you first thought.

For example the TLS Working Group is polishing up a document telling people to cut it out with the TLS 1.0 after all these years and get to something at least vaguely modern like ten year old TLS 1.2 instead, (once upon a time named the diediedie draft, these days it has a more respectable name). Martin Rex offered the opinion that TLS 1.2 is _worse_ than TLS 1.0 and 1.1 because it doesn't smash SHA1 and MD5 together to produce a single hash. He reasons that if, somehow, SHA1 is broken enough to allow a preimage attack, TLS 1.0 is fine, whereas TLS 1.2 with SHA1 is now broken.

Of course people said Martin is barking up the wrong tree. But much more importantly they took another look at their document, it didn't actually _say_ you should implement SHA-256 when you upgrade to TLS 1.2, but they all agreed you should do that, so probably the document wants to spell that out...

Re:JMAP: A modern, open email protocol by viraptor on Monday May 06, 2019 @10:32PM (#19845907)
> IETF's standardisation process almost can't help but improve whatever it is you're trying to standardize

I've read the SIP RFCs. That's not a hard rule unfortunately. (Unless it really was worse before, but I can't imagine that...)

Re:JMAP: A modern, open email protocol by tialaramex on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @09:44AM (#19858718)
No need to imagine, the IETF process results in a series of drafts for relatively modern things like SIP, so you can go back and look e.g.

https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?difftype=--hwdiff&url2=rfc326...

... is the changes from their last draft to the published RFC

Admittedly only very recent work with git-minded people in the WG has a full git history of revisions, earlier work like SIP just has the numbered drafts representing a few months work typically from one draft to the next, but you can go back and see this work and also the mailing lists that drove the changes.

I'm not a SIP expert, but looks to me like the brief extracts I read are improvements. For example that last draft requires people who want to add a new SIP method (like INVITE or CANCEL) to send IANA a copy of the RFC describing their method. Why? What possible purpose could there be when RFCs are public documents? Are they expected to... print it out and mail it? So, the final standard text just says to provide the RFC number.

Re:JMAP: A modern, open email protocol by wmf on Monday May 06, 2019 @04:03PM (#19843209)
JMAP is still young; just wait until a plethora of non-interoperable optional extensions get added.
Re:JMAP: A modern, open email protocol by btown on Monday May 06, 2019 @05:06PM (#19843875)
However bad this is, it's better than a plethora of non-interoperable optional IMAP extensions!

https://developers.google.com/gmail/imap/imap-extensions

Re:JMAP: A modern, open email protocol by tracker1 on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @09:09AM (#19848988)
Sigh... this is why implementing IMAP is a beast... Also doesn't cover what Exchange/Office 365 adds to the mix.

I'm happy to see a newer standard that is at least simpler to understand and implement.

Re:JMAP: A modern, open email protocol by atesti on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @04:11PM (#19853008)
Unfortunately Exchange adds almost nothing to the mix, they support only a bare minimum of imap extensions (only literal+ if i remember correctly) and much stuff is not supported
Re:JMAP: A modern, open email protocol by Aeolun on Monday May 06, 2019 @08:28PM (#19845310)
Yeah, at least all the current extensions of IMAP will be covered.