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Re:The Problem With Happiness by lordnacho on Saturday May 04, 2019 @06:35AM (#19825615)
As I get older what calms me isn't what you'd normally call happiness. And although I do things that you'd normally call "making me happy" like eating a nice meal or seeing friends, the thing that is most calming is the sense that everything seems to have some sort of perspective that can be invoked.

Once you've come across enough life events, along with perspectives like the one in the article, you tend to feel a degree of autonomy about how you see things. You can focus on the (really) big picture of things, where you're an insignificant short-lived ball of carbon and water, or you can warm yourself on the details of why it is you think little babies are cute.

There's also a sense that nothing is really new anymore. Whatever someone throws at me, I can fit it somewhere in my worldview. Part of that is reading a lot of stuff such as HN, part of it is meeting a lot of people can getting their view.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by basetop on Saturday May 04, 2019 @01:03PM (#19827704)
The older you get, your "highs" are never as high as in the past, but your "lows" are also never as low. You'll never be as happy or excited as you were during your first christmas. But you'll never be as disappointed as you were when you didn't get what you wanted. You'll never be as happy or excited as you were on your first or the first few dates. But you'll never be as disappointed as you were when you were first rejected or had your first breakup. Christmas and dates, like life itself, becomes transactional. The great joys and disappointments are gone. At some point society beats you down, you gain experience and life goes on autopilot. You've pretty much seen it all and done it all and there isn't any more "magic" or disappointments.

And I agree that "nothing is really new anymore".

Nihil sub sole novum.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by mdeg on Sunday May 05, 2019 @03:11AM (#19831584)
This is a very sad perspective. You have thousands of years of art, history, media, culture to dive into. There are more hobbies out there than you could ever even attempt in your lifetime. There are more regions of the world than you could ever visit, more hikes than you could ever hike. Every day, artists all over the world make entirely new creations the world has never seen before - and there'll be even more tomorrow.

Having your life on autopilot is a choice you make.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by TomMarius on Saturday May 04, 2019 @04:08PM (#19828992)
I sold my startup stake and found out that "nothing is really new anymore" couldn't be further from the truth. Not even any big amount of money. The time I gained helped me more than the money.
Re:The Problem With Happiness by mdeg on Sunday May 05, 2019 @03:40AM (#19831667)
Was the stake enough to never work again (if you chose)? If so, how do you conceive of the rest of your life?
Re:The Problem With Happiness by TomMarius on Sunday May 05, 2019 @02:14PM (#19834100)
Not in my country but yes in Thailand etc.

I moved to the frontier of technological development and intend to stay here for the foreseeable future. What I think about now is pushing technological boundaries, not fulfilling my personal monetary needs.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by pistachiopro on Saturday May 04, 2019 @06:12PM (#19829715)
Could you expand on this?
Re:The Problem With Happiness by TomMarius on Saturday May 04, 2019 @07:45PM (#19830133)
Go backpack for a year or two to Ukraine and Russia, it's fun and you'll see things you've never even imagined

If you have family, going around in a converted van/bus is a very fun thing to do with endless possibilities

Re:The Problem With Happiness by moneywoes on Sunday May 05, 2019 @01:37AM (#19831353)
How much time did you get? How has that experience changed you today?
Re:The Problem With Happiness by chrischattin on Saturday May 04, 2019 @01:08PM (#19827740)
I completely understand. My younger years were packed full of pretty intense experiences - D1 athletics, the military, building and selling a startup, building and test flying an experimental aircraft, etc, and not much feels new anymore, even though I'm relatively young.

I used to teach skydiving and watching the student's excitement during the first several jumps always brought back strong memories the initial joy. It was like reliving my first jumps.

I wonder if raising kids - sharing life experiences with a young person - has the effect of reliving the initial experience.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by tropshop on Saturday May 04, 2019 @05:42PM (#19829563)
I have kids and no doubt they have reinvigorated the journey of life. Watching them grow and learn and experience things for the first time brings back that taste of life that grows stale with age.

But before you have kids, it is more important to find a committed partner. There is nothing that will wreak havoc more on your life than a broken family. If you ever hear a parent regret having kids, you can bet there was trouble with their partner.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by namanyayg on Saturday May 04, 2019 @12:44PM (#19827564)
Wow, this is crazy -- I didn't realize others experience this as well.

I feel this way about many things in my life that I used to care about that now seem insignificant due to that "big picture" feeling, e.g., all of social media; but if I focus I can enjoy the "little details" when, for example, my SO shares a meme. Also accompanies is that nothing is new, everything is a repost, etc.

It's a weird new sensation for me that I'm still learning to deal with, especially with regards to enjoying previously enjoyable activities. Or do I just drop them and search for better endeavours?

Re:The Problem With Happiness by lordnacho on Saturday May 04, 2019 @12:53PM (#19827629)
Do activities stop being enjoyable? I suppose in a way, but normally I still get something out of having a little slice. I won't be immersing myself in another MMO like WoW though. The grind is in fact a grind that needs to be seen in a larger perspective.
Re:The Problem With Happiness by namanyayg on Saturday May 04, 2019 @03:23PM (#19828637)
I loved immersing myself in fantasy worlds, both literary and gaming, and gained immense enjoyment from doing so; but since I've had this "realization" I really can't care about lore outside of the main storyline and my enjoyment from such activities has considerably reduced. Not sure if that's entirely a loss though, as I now would rather focus on something that provides a more direct improvement to my quality of life in the future rather than fantasy trivia.
Re:The Problem With Happiness by acct1771 on Saturday May 04, 2019 @04:14PM (#19829039)
Do the last bit, but also consider working in some cannabis.
Re:The Problem With Happiness by namanyayg on Saturday May 04, 2019 @10:11PM (#19830682)
Definitely helps. But not so much when you're hitting it all day... Any resources to help bring consumption under control, i.e. maybe to a few times a week?
Re:The Problem With Happiness by Pimpus on Saturday May 04, 2019 @09:54AM (#19826444)
> There's also a sense that nothing is really new anymore. Whatever someone throws at me, I can fit it somewhere in my worldview.

I find this hard to believe. Are you not surprised by traveling? Art? dmt experiences?

Re:The Problem With Happiness by malvosenior on Saturday May 04, 2019 @11:30AM (#19827044)
No the OP but I'm no longer surprised by art, traveling or drugs. At some point you see the same broad patterns repeated over and over. I can't get excited about another speakeasy, temple or museum. I can enjoy them but they don't feel "new". Art is the same way, something meant to be "shocking"? Doesn't feel that way to me, just feels cliche. Abstract, realism... I've seen it all before. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate it, again it just doesn't feel new.

Drugs are probably the first thing on the list that get old fast.

Even things I really love, like eating authentic food from different countries, while highly enjoyable, isn't shocking or new the way it was when I first had exposure to different food in general.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by namanyayg on Saturday May 04, 2019 @12:46PM (#19827575)
Would a strong psychedelic experience not take you to a different realm of thought? I'm curious why you say it gets old fast, most psychedelics aren't habit forming.
Re:The Problem With Happiness by malvosenior on Saturday May 04, 2019 @01:03PM (#19827703)
In my experience you can only visit that realm so many times before it ceases to offer new insights.
Re:The Problem With Happiness by namanyayg on Saturday May 04, 2019 @03:20PM (#19828615)
Fair, how many times has that been for you? I'll make sure to stay well under :)
Re:The Problem With Happiness by selestify on Saturday May 04, 2019 @12:56PM (#19827652)
Does life get really boring for you, then?
Re:The Problem With Happiness by malvosenior on Saturday May 04, 2019 @01:01PM (#19827697)
Not at all. I'd say one of the reasons these things don't seem new and exciting is because as you age, you acquire things that feel much more important than new experiences for the sake of new experiences. Having a family for instance will give you near continuous new experiences at an intensity level you basically can't match outside of that situation.

It's also interesting and exciting to continue to get better at things I love (programming, hobbies...).

Re:The Problem With Happiness by scottLobster on Saturday May 04, 2019 @01:00PM (#19827680)
Heh, I'm only 31 and I feel like there's nothing really new.

Is there stuff I don't know/haven't experienced? Sure. But it's been a few years since the last time I encountered something truly mind-blowing or perspective-changing. Maybe I'll try mushrooms some day.

It's just a function of the internet really, most things that once upon a time seemed like exotic, alternate paths have been de-mystified. For example, after seeing how kung-fu holds up against MMA and BJJ, I no longer have the perception of kung-fu masters as great, master fighters.

Similarly, turns out the classical Spartans arguably weren't nearly as elite as their common reputation. They were just one of the few Greek factions that bothered to regularly train at all, and that often put them over the top.

The information required to formulate both points with any support is only possible because of the internet, where in previous years a historical lay-person like myself would likely have to spend months in the library in dedicated historical studies to arrive at the same conclusions.

The more I look at the world, the more I think the Taoists got it right. "The Great Path is simple and direct yet people love to take the side-routes"

Re:The Problem With Happiness by TheTruth1234 on Sunday May 05, 2019 @06:09PM (#19835389)
Re:The Problem With Happiness by avinium on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @12:19AM (#19846531)
I have no idea what you’re trying to say with this video - which is Floyd Mayweather (a boxer) clowning Tenshin Nasukawa (a Kickboxer) in a boxing match. Nothing to do with MMA (or for that matter, Kung fu).
Re:The Problem With Happiness by lordnacho on Saturday May 04, 2019 @10:16AM (#19826577)
dmt? Not sure what that's short for.

While travelling does show me stuff I haven't seen, that doesn't mean it significantly alters what I thought about the place I'm visiting. Or the world in the larger sense. Sometimes there's a slight surprise in how I expected things to be vs how they are, but those tend to be degrees of difference rather than requiring a large revision.

Art, it's such a huge field. I try to get a context when I see something, but I haven't spent my time learning a lot about art history. But generally I'm not surprised when I see some work of art.

One thing to think about is whether being able to fit everything nicely is itself a symptom of a problem. Hard to know.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by mping on Saturday May 04, 2019 @10:51AM (#19826780)
DMT is a psychedelics drug.
Re:The Problem With Happiness by lordnacho on Saturday May 04, 2019 @11:12AM (#19826915)
I've tried a few drugs too, I really don't see what it added to my life. Especially in exchange for the risk, who knows what could have happened to me?

It's one of those things you try because people around you are trying. But basically, I felt nothing from smoking joints or mushrooms. I had one fun experience once in Amsterdam with some hash cookies, but could I live without it? Yeah.

I feel much the same about alcohol. That at least has a common cultural set of expectations, but at the same time, I didn't think it really changed much about what I thought about the world.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by pmoriarty on Saturday May 04, 2019 @12:07PM (#19827297)
"I felt nothing from smoking joints or mushrooms."

It's quite common not to have any effect from the first few times one tries smoking marijuana. Eventually, the body seems to "learn" how to appreciate the high.

As for mushrooms, if you felt nothing from them I wonder if: 1 - your dose was too low, or 2 - the mushrooms you had weren't psychoactive.

Believe me, if you've tried a high dose of a real psychedelic drug, it would be a very intense experience (assuming you remembered it, as some people do have amnesia from too high a dose of psychedelics, possibly because the experience is too intense for their conscious mind to assimilate).

Re:The Problem With Happiness by lordnacho on Saturday May 04, 2019 @12:59PM (#19827676)
"I felt nothing" is perhaps the wrong expression. One time I had my vision strobing (as in I could turn my head and the picture in my mind would be like several images rather than a video) and ended walking around a music festival camping ground for hours.

What I meant was the experience did not really add much to how I thought about the world. I didn't have particularly meaningful conversations with anyone during that time. It didn't add perspective, which is kinda what I thought would happen.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by hkai on Sunday May 05, 2019 @04:59AM (#19831853)
Sorry to suggest that, but from your last few posts I feel that perhaps you may have a hidden depression?
Re:The Problem With Happiness by ElFitz on Sunday May 05, 2019 @02:20AM (#19831456)
I wouldn't consider a music festival the right setting for introspection
Re:The Problem With Happiness by katbyte on Saturday May 04, 2019 @01:59PM (#19828066)
You didn't do enough/were in the right setting.
Re:The Problem With Happiness by pmoriarty on Saturday May 04, 2019 @02:17PM (#19828186)
I agree. It sounds like lordnacho got a weak dose.

It should be kept in mind, however, is that people's sensitivity to various drugs varies. So what might be a weak dose to one person might be a strong dose to another.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by hobofan on Saturday May 04, 2019 @03:47PM (#19828828)
> I find this hard to believe. Are you not surprised by traveling? Art? dmt experiences?

Those are the lightweights, largely because they are also manufactured experiences:

- Traveling: Whoa, in that other country, people are speaking a different language, have different customs, and have different values? Who could have known!

- Art: Sure, art can evoke some feelings, but rarely is it earthshattering

- Drugs: Okay, that I don't know - and don't care for

The bigger things are other life events, like change in relationships, change in worklife, moving places, friends and family getting ill or worse. Sure, those will never be easy, but the more you go through them the better you know that "this too shall pass" and how to deal with it.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by rjegundo on Saturday May 04, 2019 @12:43PM (#19827557)
I believe you are accidentally describing equanimity. Which I think it would be a much better function to optimize for than happiness, at any scale.

The article has some interesting points but I believe it lacks a reflection from the eastern point of view and a critique to capitalism as it does for socialism.

Without them the discussion seems incomplete.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by lordnacho on Saturday May 04, 2019 @01:06PM (#19827732)
You're right, he takes off from some observations about the Soviet union. Perhaps the main issue with that is pretty much everyone thought that was a terrible system and thus we are prepared to accept the viewpoint about happiness that he presents.

Free markets, as I prefer to call it, are different. There's a fair case that a lot of good has come from it, along with not so good things. Thus to present the case from a free markets point of view would require a fair bit more explanation:

- Why is it that you're not more happy being able to choose from 10 varieties of toothpaste than when you just buy the one that is there?

- People who work minimum wage jobs, why are they not happy there was at least that? They's be starving otherwise, right? Why aren't they all grateful?

- What is it about extreme specialization that's so unsatisfying? Even Adam Smith touched on this IIRC.

> I believe you are accidentally describing equanimity

Think I learned a new word today!

Re:The Problem With Happiness by rjegundo on Saturday May 04, 2019 @01:23PM (#19827828)
Thanks!

Honestly when I read this I was not expecting it to touch politics and how societies organize themselves. My point is not that capitalism is bad for happiness, is that I don't think politics are that relevant in the discussion.

Happiness is almost always defined as the opposite to something else. As a solution for a problem. Socialism and Free markets and many other structures provide slightly different manners to enable those solutions. This is what your average zen monk would perhaps call duality.

But being happy is fundamentally a game where the only winning move is not to play. Equanimity, as acceptance of the present is a much more sustainable approach to use a more common language.

If we want to talk about which system would favour this better, well, I honestly don't know. I feel this is much more deeper matter of education, philosophy and appreciation for life. Freedom of speech is probably better for it but I'm not sure it makes a significant difference and we will not be able to measure it.

Socialism might remove the struggle of life and therefore the meaning of it. Free markets fosters artificial struggles and distractions to life, making meaning artificial. You could then argue that all meaning is ultimately artificial, which I would probably agree, but I don't see how it makes it better.

Ultimately, I don't think the solution is in the society. It must be the individual, only he/she/it transcends. Any transmission of that happens via direct experience, or a lot of books and introspection, not abstract models that you can teach easily. I have no idea how to do this at scale, I suspect it is not possible.

But the closest ideal would probably be to just teach and discuss philosophy across the world for the genuine interest of leading a better life and not to project status.

Re:The Problem With Happiness by qrbLPHiKpiux on Saturday May 04, 2019 @11:41AM (#19827122)
The way I see the internet evolving puts things in-check for me. It add to the negative balance of my happiness.