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Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by zaroth on Saturday April 20, 2019 @04:13PM (#19708633)
Trying to teach “everyone” to code is like teaching everyone to draw in high school art classes. It gives a lot of people exposure to what it means to code/draw, the fundamental steps of coding/drawing but doesn’t increase the supply of coders/artists in the world to the point where the skilled artists/programmers become commonplace.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by oblib on Saturday April 20, 2019 @05:43PM (#19709040)
What you say is true, but it's also true that the bar is lower than it was 20 years ago and it continues to move that direction, at least when we talk about simple "apps" as opposed to bleeding edge technologies now.

For example, "Chart.js" makes it really easy to create beautiful charts in a web app. Because of tools like that it's much easier to learn how to build a feature rich app now than 20 years ago.

Still, the guy who can create "Chart.js" (an artist) should be getting paid a lot more than a guy who can only use it (a craftsmen).

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by musingsole on Saturday April 20, 2019 @11:58PM (#19710464)
> Still, the guy who can create "Chart.js" (an artist) should be getting paid a lot more than a guy who can only use it (a craftsmen).

Why? One without the other is pretty pointless. I can accept the roles are different but not that either is particularly harder.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by FunkyDuckling on Sunday April 21, 2019 @01:02AM (#19710617)
Because there is one of him vs thousands of the other
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by rootlocus on Sunday April 21, 2019 @01:37AM (#19710684)
Some people can do both, but choose the second (using a library) because of all the reasons reusing existing libraries instead of rolling your own. From this point of view, I'd rather hire someone who doesn't suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by duxup on Saturday April 20, 2019 @09:21PM (#19709980)
I did a coding boot camp and oh man half the class was IMO unemployable as far as a job coding goes.

It's one thing to code what you see in front of you, another to think about problems and solve them thoughtfully, research, debug, and etc. Troubleshooting(debugging) in particular is a hard thing to learn.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by mcnichol on Saturday April 20, 2019 @04:56PM (#19708820)
I think you are making the mistake that enterprises who employ thousands of developers are looking for quality over butts in seats.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by rubicon33 on Saturday April 20, 2019 @04:59PM (#19708843)
Yup. And they're missing the point that this isn't 1985 anymore. A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB. Or at least, JavaScript and similar languages make programming much, much easier (and hence the barrier to entry much easier).

As coding difficulty drops, and supply increases, the net effect will be a much higher demand for jobs than supply. And that's exactly where big tech wants it to be.

edit: here comes the javascript developer downvotes.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by seattle_spring on Saturday April 20, 2019 @10:49PM (#19710276)
> A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB

I actually love it when a developer says something like this, because it tells me way more than even 2 full days of pairing or interviewing could: They know absolutely nothing about software at scale, and are probably extremely arrogant to boot.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by rubicon33 on Sunday April 21, 2019 @04:20PM (#19714325)
I actually love it when I get a response just like yours.

It informs me that you're probably a JQuery developer, personally offended because you believe that your work is incredibly advanced and challenging. In reality, what you do is probably some of the easiest "coding" to have ever come to fruition. Yet, you toss out the "at scale" comment ad nauseam because you think it'll make you sound important.

Just by the fact that you denounce anyone who recognizes the simplicity of it modern development tools shows me you probably fail to recognize the simplicity yourself. Or you don't want to admit the simple fact that programming has gotten much easier. That's been intent of so many modern languages, yet we're always going to have someone like you who claims we all don't know what we're talking about because we've never built anything "at scale".

Your 10,000 hits / day blog isn't "scale" buddy.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by seattle_spring on Friday April 26, 2019 @08:23PM (#19762915)
Yeah all those useless frontend engineers (sorry, "jQuery developers") at Facebook and Google, being paid $500k+ / year to work on their 10k hits / day blog.

Edit: Also, I'm not your buddy, pal.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by ReptileMan on Sunday April 21, 2019 @02:06AM (#19710755)
I don't know - I still think that you can replace twitter in a weekend. You just need a couple of markov chain outrage bots shouting at each other, porn scraping bot and a bare metal web server that can process couple of million requests per second.

Jokes aside - the biggest error this software developer makes is not realizing that software is not the crtitcal part of AirBNB success. It is the thousand manyears of boots in streets promoting the app and getting people onboard.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by antt on Sunday April 21, 2019 @03:06AM (#19710905)
Great software has never cause a company to succeed. Bad enough software will always cause a company to fail.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by seattle_spring on Sunday April 21, 2019 @10:48AM (#19712279)
Wow, looks like "here cometh the downvotes" homeboy couldn't take the criticism and flagged every comment he disagreed with.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by rubicon33 on Sunday April 21, 2019 @01:43PM (#19713381)
You can't downvote a direct sub-comment.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by 0_gravitas on Saturday April 20, 2019 @05:24PM (#19708983)
I see this hyperbole a lot, any kid within a week can copy an online tutorial on how to make a static site, but it takes a long time to begin to think in a way that let's you do interesting/useful things on your own.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by ntsplnkv2 on Saturday April 20, 2019 @11:53PM (#19710444)
I fall victim to it myself at times.

It's classic expert talk, "oh, that's easy." Perhaps to you :)

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by antt on Saturday April 20, 2019 @05:46PM (#19709061)
>Yup. And they're missing the point that this isn't 1985 anymore. A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB.

Sorry is this a joke? Because I'm missing it.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by TuringNYC on Sunday April 21, 2019 @02:19AM (#19710794)
I dont think this is a joke -- because sellers (workers) believe it and because buyers (employers) believe it...until they realize the project

- crashes under load,

- cannot scale to even 5% the traffic,

- doesnt have all the myriad required compliance and transnational side systems

- has underinvested in accounting and all support systems

- is un-maintainable, etc. etc.

And that is when serious businesses realize you get what you pay for and that you need to pay for real experience to real systems.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by arcticfox on Saturday April 20, 2019 @05:47PM (#19709065)
> A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB.

Yeah, that could definitely happen. /s

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by krob on Saturday April 20, 2019 @08:51PM (#19709884)
All I can say is LOL.. good luck with that. Maybe if they were Little Man Tate. Knowing where to start, the permutations of frameworks & libraries & algorithmic knowledge & design patterns etc.. That's like the whole.. I know how to build a blog when all you did was click a button on digital ocean to deploy wordpress and now you think you know how to deploy it. Then client says they need it to be on GCE or AWS. Yes you can always use PAAS products, but experience plays a role.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by swoongoonz on Saturday April 20, 2019 @08:33PM (#19709799)
These kids would be competing with incredibly prolific web developers who not only output an insane amount of code themselves but manage OSS at massive scales. One example is Jordan Harband, responsible for:

1. Enzyme, the current top used React testing library 2. NVM, kind of the only game in town for managing node versions 3. qs, a tool for converting search to json objects and back 4. tc39 proposals, the committee that determines new JS features

This is all in addition to his developer work at Airbnb. I would like to see a high schooler have that kind of maturity, drive, and focus.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by roenxi on Saturday April 20, 2019 @11:48PM (#19710437)
I disagree with the direction gp is taking, big projects involving money and people are not easy. On the other hand your example might support his argument.

You've drawn attention to an Airbnb engineer with a bunch of other interests that don't seem directly related to the infrastructure behind the company. I'm sure they use these things, but they aren't going to be critical to the success or failure of the site. That suggests the technical challenges of Airbnb aren't enough to keep someone with a large amount of maturity, drive and focus busy and interested.

Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by swoongoonz on Monday April 22, 2019 @09:51AM (#19718906)
That's totally possible but if you're the CTO of Airbnb would you want the high schooler for cheap (who may be unreliable when it comes to managing schedules, following protocols, having the maturity to deal with failing systems) or do you want the guy who's been managing all of these OS products for years? It's a person issue, not really a competency issue.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by chrisweekly on Saturday April 20, 2019 @10:10PM (#19710153)
nit: `n` is way better than `nvm`
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by swoongoonz on Monday April 22, 2019 @09:46AM (#19718860)
+1 to n for the homebrew installation. nvm team is notoriously hardheaded about not wanting to maintain availability through different tools.
Re:We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage by rdiddly on Saturday April 20, 2019 @06:08PM (#19709198)
You're exaggerating, but it's basically true that on the technical side everything from AirBnB to Zillow are just CRUD apps, with varying degrees of nice UI stuff on the front-end. Once you've built one, you could kind of build any of them. (Not sure a high-schooler with a week of JS would be up to it though, LOL.)

Anyway it's important to note that coming up with the business idea and then executing it well is kinda where the money comes from, not from the app itself per se. A business may have a website; it might even use a web app to deliver its core business value; but having a website or web app doesn't necessarily mean you have a business.