News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by Barrin92 on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:49PM (#19621664)
>Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg on Monday announced that the social network will use artificial intelligence to determine when someone has died, and stop sending those kinds of notifications.

Can't wait until the facebook neural net declares me dead because of my sclerotic post activity and my family thinks I've kicked the bucket when they don't get an announcenment on my birthday.

Maybe instead of trying to solve everything with 'artificial intelligence' we ought to design these systems in ways that are less prone to these sorts of misbehaviours. Seems like building systems that work 80% of the time and then hoping that throwing ML engineers at the issue solves the last 20% is the new hot design pattern.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by malux85 on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:53AM (#19622934)
Your family’s only measure on whether you’re alive or not is the yearly birthday reminder from Facebook?

In all seriousness, what do you expect them to do? They can’t have a checkbox “I am dead” for you to click after you pass, so they’re using a bit of data science to try and reduce the heartache of accidentally reminding someone when you might be dead.

I’m no fan of facebook, I don’t have an account and I think they are a net negative in the world, but sometimes they’re just trying to do the right thing, and credit where it’s due

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by Barrin92 on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:25PM (#19627436)
>Your family’s only measure on whether you’re alive or not is the yearly birthday reminder from Facebook?

I work in a foreign country, so I guess there's the possibility that remote family might at least be concerned if something like that happened.

>In all seriousness, what do you expect them to do?

give me control over when I broadcast out birthday reminders, because as an infrequent user I would simply turn it off. Problem solved.

Obviously it is not in Facebook's interest to give me control over my feed or activity to this degree, so it will never happen.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by Piskvorrr on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @05:01AM (#19622977)
They can have a checkbox "I'm not quite dead!" - also known in physical industries as "dead man's switch".
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by zebraflask on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:31AM (#19622352)
Reminds me of that classic quote from Mark Twain:

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by onion2k on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:39PM (#19621623)
Birthday reminders are one of the reasons I've practically abandoned Facebook.

Seeing people wish you happy birthday on there by clicking a button encapsulates how false the narrative is; if the reason you remembered my birthday is that Facebook told you then we don't have a relationship where you should be sending me a birthday message.

The only thing more annoying is that now LinkedIn does it too. That's just weird.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by mehrdadn on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:30AM (#19621852)
> Seeing people wish you happy birthday on there by clicking a button encapsulates how false the narrative is; if the reason you remembered my birthday is that Facebook told you then we don't have a relationship where you should be sending me a birthday message.

It's only as genuine or fake as you make it be. I'm sure you don't keep in touch with 100% of the people who made positive contributions to your life. You can take this as a less-awkward opportunity to wish them well, and maybe get back in touch if you feel like it, instead of living life as if their existence doesn't matter to you. Or you could not... you could do something else, or you could do nothing if you don't want to do anything with people you don't regularly keep in touch with. It's up to you how real it is and what it means; that you can only think of false narratives for it doesn't mean it is or needs to be that way.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by lozaning on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:57PM (#19621706)
Of the relationships where you should be sending people a birthday message, do you have all of their birthdays memorized, or do you use a calendar? I dont really see the difference between using facebook or a gmail calendar for reminders such as these.

I'll agree that the simple "Happy Birthday" messages people post on facebook are trite, but rather frequently I'm reminded that it's someone's birthday via facebook and then text or call the person.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by reaperducer on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:05AM (#19621741)
Of the relationships where you should be sending people a birthday message, do you have all of their birthdays memorized, or do you use a calendar?

I'm not the OP, but yes, I have a calendar with people's birthdays in it. Every computer since the 1980's comes with a calendar program, and now they sync to your mobile phone, so there's no need to pass responsibility for that sort of thing to Facebook.

I also send (gasp) paper birthday and Christmas cards to the people who mean a lot to me. And from what they tell me, getting a real card in the mail means a million times more to them, since they know I took time out of my life to think of them and didn't just click a button and move on.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by zimpenfish on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @06:05AM (#19623233)
> but yes, I have a calendar with people's birthdays in it.

Me too, it's called Facebook.

> I also send (gasp) paper birthday and Christmas cards to the people who mean a lot to me.

Same but for those people who haven't shared their addresses , a Facebook post and/or message suffices.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by dingaling on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:08AM (#19622743)
But you bought a pre-produced, mass-printed card that someone else designed. Not very personal. How is that much different from a clicky-greeting on Facebook, other than cost?
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by x0x0 on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:29AM (#19622831)
Effort.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by onion2k on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:20AM (#19621806)
The difference between Facebook and a calendar is that adding someone's birthday to my calendar requires effort. I need to find out when their birthday is, and I need to set up a reminder. It's a small but important difference.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by mehrdadn on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:45AM (#19621914)
Not sure why you were downvoted, this is a pretty crucial difference.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by lozaning on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:33PM (#19626944)
Never in my life of wishing people happy birthday have they inquired as to my birthday record keeping methodology.

Nor have I ever asked anyone that sent me a happy birthday text or call how they knew.

What matters is what you do once it's someone's birthday, not how you found out or keep track.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by mehrdadn on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:45PM (#19627059)
I mean, just because nobody explicitly inquires about something doesn't mean it's irrelevant. If you got a gift from an old friend (or even a happy birthday message) and then somehow found out it was only because someone else had pressured them into doing that, would it mean the same thing to you as if it had been their own independent decision? Most people wouldn't...
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by lozaning on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @03:54PM (#19628195)
Facebook doesn't pressure me into saying happy birthday any more than your gcal or other alternate means of birthday tracking does.

To me this is markedly different than your scenario where Bob nags Alice until she relents and wishes me happy birthday.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by mehrdadn on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:05PM (#19628281)
> Facebook doesn't pressure me into saying happy birthday any more than your gcal or other alternate means of birthday tracking does.

Your gcal says "Wish your friends a happy birthday!" above a box it pops up for you to do so?

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by chongli on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:40AM (#19621895)
I dont really see the difference between using facebook or a gmail calendar for reminders such as these.

The difference is that you consciously choose whose birthdays you enter into your calendar. Facebook just assumes anyone you know is close enough.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by hokobomo on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:19AM (#19622792)
> do you have all of their birthdays memorized

I surely do. It's not a problem to memorize a few numbers related to the people significant to me enough to send them a birthday message.

The Dunbar numbers go around 3-5, 9-15, 30-45 [0], so even "the 2nd tier" relationships' birthdays are not really that hard to remember

[0] https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rspb.2004...

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by manigandham on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:53AM (#19622218)
Facebook is what you make it. Why are you friends with people you don't care for? 99% of the complaints I hear are because people don't like what others post or do on there, but yet they're still connected as "friends".

Having 100s of relationships isn't real, nobody can actually maintain that many. Trim it down to people you care about and suddenly everything gets better.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by starpilot on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:11AM (#19622279)
I turned the birthday notifications off a while ago. I also removed my birthday so that no one receives them from me.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by enobrev on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:41AM (#19621899)
I still use Facebook a few times a week because it does still have some utility to me, but I stopped wishing anyone happy birthday on there as soon as the feature was realized by the masses. What's one more wish among the hundreds who robotically do so at the press of a button. I don't mean to disparage them, though. Just that it's crossed the bridge of _too_ impersonal to be effective.

The reminder can still be useful though. Once in a while I'll see a reminder for a birthday of someone I would genuinely like to reach out to, and I'll call or text or email them. I still have calendar reminders for birthdays from before all of this when I was meticulously curating my own contact list with birthdays, but Facebook's birthday list is more complete than my old calendar, especially for my younger friends / relatives.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by blhack on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:33AM (#19622124)
>if the reason you remembered my birthday is that Facebook told you then we don't have a relationship where you should be sending me a birthday message.

People used to keep this information in their personal planners. How is this different?

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by hiharryhere on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:37AM (#19622140)
"It's the thought that counts"

Caring enough about that person to write it in a personal planner, and then doing something when you see that reminder is 'the thought that counts'.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by zebraflask on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:22AM (#19621817)
I think the distinction between the two platforms is that Facebook's approach assumes some level of personal connection between accounts, and users have bought into that expectation.

LinkedIn is the online version of a collection of business cards. Sending a birthday card is a typical business development practice that is difficult, in my opinion, to take seriously or take much offense from.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by Simon_says on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:38AM (#19622378)
Shortly before I deactivated my Facebook account, I changed my birthday to 6 months from the reality. Lots of well-wishes on the wrong date. I knew it was time to leave.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by wila on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:49AM (#19622426)
There are other reasons I do not use facebook much, but you can turn this off. IIRC this is just a matter of not sharing your birthday with anyone.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by taneq on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:46AM (#19622180)
I never send birthday wishes by Facebook for exactly that reason. I still feel like Scrooge for not doing so, though.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by Raed667 on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:41AM (#19621898)
"Back in the day" I changed my birthday several times a year to see if anyone actually notices or people just push a button mindlessly.

I ended up having generic happy-birthday wishes by the same people over and over.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by ruvis on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:09AM (#19622030)
I learned that you can have a birthday every 10'ish months and no one will notice. (Except for people who actually know when it's your birthday obviously.) More than that and people will start to catch on.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by Simon_says on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:39AM (#19622386)
How did you learn that 10 months is the threshold?
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by thundergolfer on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @08:22AM (#19623881)
I did the same in order and one time got an actual physical card given to me in person by a friend.

Was pretty embarrassing but my close friends present, who knew my real birthday, said nothing.

I was so flattered by the gesture I didn't have the heart to tell him my birthday was not in May.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by caymanjim on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:46AM (#19622417)
This kind of reminder can happen even if the person isn't on Facebook. Every few months, a "Hey, remember this from 5 years ago?" photo pops up with a now-deceased friend of mine. It's depressing, and my effort to get Facebook to stop showing me "Do you want to share this memory?" photos has failed. She wasn't even on Facebook. I suppose I could go through all my old photos and delete them, but I'd prefer not to be prompted at all.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by aldamiz on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:39AM (#19622145)
>FB will use artificial intelligence to determine when someone has died

Everything about Facebook looks terrible

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by palad1n on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:35PM (#19621602)
Actually, I kind of like that. Brings back memories of them.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by JamesBarney on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:39PM (#19621622)
I'm with you. Its nice to remember, and it's nice to see the annual post when all the people who loved them can reminisce.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by thrill on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @10:56PM (#19621400)
It's a start. How about allowing blocking all birthday and Billy Bob and Scooter have been friends for x years messages too?
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by throw132133 on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @09:45AM (#19624536)
AI seems to have become the default solution for any of Facebook's problems with its platform. It sounds great, but I start to wonder how practical is it. Can they really determine if you are died with high probability? You would need quite a lot of personal data from your friends and family to determine that. oh wait..
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by jammygit on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:13PM (#19621474)
I wonder why nobody's gotten around to it yet. Could it be complicated to decide if someone passed away or not?
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by Jach on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:39PM (#19621620)
You can memorialize the account of someone dead without too much difficulty, they get a "Remembering" tag on the profile. https://facebook.com/help/103897939701143
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by camtarn on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:52PM (#19621683)
Having experienced this myself first-hand:

It's not hard, but you need to know that telling FB that your friend is dead is even an option, then go search for that. For most of us that probably seems pretty simple, but we're definitely the outliers in regards to technical sophistication and knowing how a site 'should' work.

In addition, there's the 'etiquette' of trying to figure out if you, as a friend, should do that, or whether you should leave it to their family, and then wondering if their family even knows about their FB profile, etc.

As the article pointed out, 'there are likely far more accounts that haven't been memorialized' - which suggests that people don't do it.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by Jach on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:04AM (#19621736)
That's fair. If I didn't do it for my mom, I doubt it'd have been done. I don't even think I'd consider doing it for a friend, that's something I'd leave in the hands of whoever has the death certificate.

Facebook surely indexes a lot of the internet, "AI techniques" like entity resolution on obituaries would probably go a long way to finding unreported deaths.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by mehrdadn on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:46AM (#19621918)
I seem to recall there was an important caveat to memorializing an account, but unfortunately I don't remember what it was. Anybody know?
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by Jach on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @06:19AM (#19623282)
Probably that once you do it, if the account holder had previously set it up so, you might end up triggering deletion of their account. A lesser caveat is that without a previously specified caretaker, the account will become totally locked down, whereas a caretaker can still change the photos or pin messages etc.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by mehrdadn on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @06:26AM (#19623313)
Oh yeah I think it was one/both of these, thanks!!
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by oceanghost on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:27PM (#19628469)
Not all memories aren't happy...

Like the happy memories of my ex-wife which are now a tragedy to me -- that everyday Facebook wants to remind me about. I don't use facebook much.

There should be a filter button such that I can say, "I don't want to hear about this person anymore."

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by anoncake on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:40AM (#19622153)
> Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg on Monday announced that the social network will use artificial intelligence to determine when someone has died, and stop sending those kinds of notifications.

Since there is no way Facebook will get 100% recall: no, it will not stop doing that.

Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by hbosch on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:43AM (#19621908)
I’m sure whatever technical achievement solved this problem will somehow lead to people instead offering condolences on the passing of their still-living friends.
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by abductee_hg on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @06:57AM (#19623451)
false positives incoming... also convincing fb you're dead (instead of deleting your account) will become a new dark pattern?
Re:Facebook says it will use AI to determine when someone h... by ipsum2 on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:23AM (#19621822)
Tired of this media narrative. Why spin a positive feature into something negative?