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Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by dx87 on Friday April 05, 2019 @12:23AM (#19579674)
If it makes you feel any better, not everywhere is like that. I work at a mid sized technology consulting company on the east coast, and I've heard multiple managers say that they hate when they have to manage developers from the west coast. My manager told us about a time she got a nasty email from the lead developer of a team because she started an email with "Hey guys" instead of a gender neutral greeting.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by smelendez on Friday April 05, 2019 @01:05AM (#19579868)
That is regional, though. I'm from New York and I've addressed groups of older female relatives as "you guys" without anyone batting an eye.

In other parts of the country that's not common and people see "guys" as gendered, and people feel like you're forgetting they're there.

The word "dude" as a form of address is gender neutral and business appropriate some places and not others.

It's a hard problem: Y'all works some places but sounds goofy and affected in others. Same with "folks."

Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by mwfunk on Friday April 05, 2019 @01:58AM (#19580084)
I've lived in the Rust Belt, the southeast, and California for big chunks of my life and you're right on about regionalisms. For language or social norms in general, all that matters is how something's taken, not what was meant by it.

If I know that some phrase is really uncommon or has different shades of meaning in a different part of the country or a different part of the world, I also know that if I use that phrase in that other place, it will get interpreted differently from what it means to me. It can be frustrating if I haven't yet picked up on the differences, but it's just the nature of communication.

I have also tried to hang on to "y'all" and "folks" since moving to the west coast. "Folks" is a harder sell though, when I use it feels more like an affectation. But that's my perception of others' perceptions. Maybe I'm pulling off "folks" without realizing it. But "y'all" has more staying power, because it's a legitimately useful term that's otherwise missing from the English language.

Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by suppressingfire on Monday April 08, 2019 @04:24AM (#19603212)
"you all" or "youse" can work as reasonable alternatives. I haven't tried "tons" since I've never actually heard it "used in anger."

One less fraught, but equally confusing terms are "a couple" vs. "a few" vs. "a handful" (some believe "couple" = 2 whereas others treat it and the others as explicitly more fuzzy). Often it's best to just assume as little context as possible and be a little more explicit and verbose.

Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by mwfunk on Friday April 19, 2019 @11:15PM (#19704634)
Also Pittsburgh gets an honorable mention- they have "yinz" instead of y'all or youse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinz
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by tiglionabbit on Friday April 05, 2019 @02:22AM (#19580178)
It's not really regional. I have noticed this most from folks who are transitioning genders. Some are OK with "they", but some prefer folks to go above and beyond to affirm their new gender, thus objecting to "dude" and "guys".

As a result, I've gotten into the habit of saying "y'all" and "folks" even though I'd otherwise never have used these words.

Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by seanmcdirmid on Friday April 05, 2019 @08:11AM (#19581704)
It is regional outside of the USA, quickly gaining gender neutrality in the UK, Australia, India, .... y’all or folks won’t cut it in those places.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by swish_bob on Friday April 05, 2019 @09:54AM (#19582474)
Folk is fine in the UK and works well, as does "everybody".
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by disgruntledphd2 on Friday April 05, 2019 @03:01AM (#19580367)
I use gentlefolk, to avoid this issue (also it's kinda of a cool word, that people tend not to use very much).
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by C1sc0cat on Friday April 05, 2019 @04:18AM (#19580713)
I would have said dude is male but in the UK "guys" is now gender neutral amongst younger generations.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by 93s6oz on Friday April 05, 2019 @05:10AM (#19580915)
I am European. "Y'all" and "folks" are big warning signs for me. When I see someone use those, I know where things are going.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by tertius on Friday April 05, 2019 @10:47AM (#19583046)
Headed for profit, charm and lightheartedness?
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by EGreg on Friday April 05, 2019 @02:12AM (#19580133)
Hey everyone

Hey everybody!

Listen up people

All,

What each of you needs to do...

I have a task for all of you

Let’s all have a great time

Alright gentlemen and lady,

Everyone on the team should read this

This applies to everyone on the team

Any person on the team can do xyz

If you see something, say something

Thou hast best checkest thyself, ‘ere thee wreckest thyself!

Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by cube2222 on Friday April 05, 2019 @12:39AM (#19579746)
Just saying, guys in the plural is gender neutral.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/guy

Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by moultano on Friday April 05, 2019 @12:54AM (#19579821)
How many guys have you dated?
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by EGreg on Friday April 05, 2019 @02:15AM (#19580142)
“You guys” is gender neutral.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by darpa_escapee on Friday April 05, 2019 @02:04AM (#19580101)
Context matters.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by laughinghan on Friday April 05, 2019 @04:54AM (#19580847)
It's funny, the mind-boggling sensitivity definitely goes both ways. I've known people who received direct but totally polite feedback suggesting they use one of many delightful gender neutral greetings instead of "guys", and became incredibly defensive. Probably described the feedback with a word similar to "nasty".
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by SmellyGeekBoy on Friday April 05, 2019 @06:50AM (#19581321)
There's nothing "polite" about trying to create conflict out of trivial non-issues.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by laughinghan on Friday April 05, 2019 @12:50PM (#19584449)
Since it's such a trivial non-issue, shouldn't it be easy to accommodate someone's preference without conflict? Do you believe that anyone who's ever expressed a preference on a trivial non-issue was deliberately trying to create conflict?
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by moultano on Friday April 05, 2019 @02:27PM (#19585572)
You don't get to call things "trivial non-issues" when by default they all tilt your way.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by veryworried on Friday April 05, 2019 @09:52AM (#19582460)
I’ve heard the same protest that MITM attack should be changed to “person-in-the-middle” attack. From west coast professionals no doubt.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by Jun8 on Friday April 05, 2019 @10:55AM (#19583145)
Despite what many people say, usage of you guys as non-gendered address, similar to the regional y'all, is rather well-established: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/11816/is-guy-gen.... However, in corporate environments it's still a good maxim to be mindful of people who have non-standard sensibilities, e.g. I personally use you guys as email address only for all-male group of recipients.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by MRD85 on Friday April 05, 2019 @03:54PM (#19586373)
Why aren't they respecting your diversity and cultural language? I mean this in a serious way. There is a clash here between your cultural language and their views on gendered language and they immediately got offended by cultural differences and tried to impose their culture on your manager.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by SmellyGeekBoy on Friday April 05, 2019 @06:48AM (#19581307)
Strange, I consider "guys" to be gender neutral. Presumably "guys and gals" would be offensive to non-binary folk?

So what's the acceptable format? "guys, gals, and... others?"

Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by astura on Friday April 05, 2019 @09:56AM (#19582491)
All,

Please make sure to put a cover sheet on your TPS reports.

Team,

Please make sure to put a cover sheet on your TPS reports.

Everyone,

Please make sure to put a cover sheet on your TPS reports.

Good Afternoon/Morning,

Please make sure to put a cover sheet on your TPS reports.

Staff,

Please make sure to put a cover sheet on your TPS reports.

I just quickly browsed through my emails I've received this year (coworkers, customers, vendors) and that covers all the ones I've received. All of those are perfectly acceptable.

I wouldn't be personally use "guys," "gals," or "guys and gals" in a non-friend situation.

Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by MRD85 on Friday April 05, 2019 @03:57PM (#19586405)
All of those comes across far more formally than "guys", they remind me of a written order from a military officer (source: 10 years in the Army). For me "guys" seems far friendlier.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by killjoywashere on Friday April 05, 2019 @06:51AM (#19581328)
"Hello", "good morning/afternoon/evening". In Japanese, "Ohio/Konichiwa", in German "Guten tag" etc.
Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by BeetleB on Friday April 05, 2019 @10:29AM (#19582841)
>So what's the acceptable format? "guys, gals, and... others?"

Folks,...

Re:Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry by astura on Friday April 05, 2019 @06:38AM (#19581265)
What about the email was "nasty?"