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Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by lupire on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:34AM (#19571415)
This is the blathering of spoiled rich kid on vacation.

> In London, Paris, Berlin, I hop on the train, head to the cafe — it’s the afternoon, and nobody’s gotten to work until 9am, and even then, maybe not until 10 — order a carefully made coffee and a newly baked croissant, do some writing, pick up some fresh groceries, maybe a meal or two, head home — now it’s 6 or 7, and everyone else has already gone home around 5 — and watch something interesting, maybe a documentary by an academic, the BBC’s Blue Planet, or a Swedish crime-noir. I think back on my day and remember the people smiling and laughing at the pubs and cafes.

This is so farcical it's not even worth trying to rebut.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by 0xfeba on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:58AM (#19571693)
I'd have to agree.

> pick up some mass-produced groceries, full of toxins and colourings and GMOs, even if they are labelled “organic” and “fresh”, all forbidden in Europe

As if just being a "GMO" by itself is a disqualifier. That'd be 90% of the crops on the planet. And the catch-all "toxins". Oi the naivety.

There are some truths in that article but it was hard to read without cringing. That and he generalizes the entire US when public parks, transportation, art, events etc. vary wildly by state.

Ok, well public transport is pretty terrible everywhere in the US.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by njepa on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:52AM (#19572258)
Food colouring and additives are generally more restricted in the EU than the US though. For example: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/28/well/eat/food-additives-b...
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by exelius on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:13AM (#19571859)
Europe is not the example I would use to tear down myths of American exceptionalism because Europe has its own myth of European exceptionalism. Europe has a cultural context that radically diverged from the Americas: the whole 19th century was a series of bloody, pointless conflicts that made populations extremely suspicious of power and the ability to compel labor / service. In fact, I find Europe a poor comparison because the cultural values around work ethic are so different. A better analogue is South America: culturally we share a lot more values (especially around consumerism and the value of work, though South America tends to value workers) with our southern neighbors than our friends across the pond.

No, it’s when you visit the cities most Americans think of as “third world shitholes”: places like Mexico City, Bangkok, Manila, Lagos, Bogota... and you realize they have much more modern infrastructure with more accessible healthcare, better food, and more opportunity for social advancement. When you see how the quality of life is better — or at at least equivalent — in a “shithole country”, it really disabuses you of any previously-held notions that America is heads-and-shoulders above the rest of the world. We largely just trade individual happiness for a low unemployment rate and a high per-capita income (which is only high if you ignore how much more we spend on healthcare).

I’m a big fan of Factfulness by Hans Rosling. One of the most insightful things in the book is that our understanding of the situation on the ground in a far off culture is that any information we have about that place will perpetually be 10 years behind reality. This has more to do with cultural / language differences than anything; before western researchers even realize advancement is happening to know to measure it, the change has already achieved critical mass. And the pace of advancement has only gotten faster, meaning our perceptions of these places are even further behind the reality.

But if you don’t travel, you don’t see any of that. You just see what the news shows you; and that news is influenced by the sentiments of an audience comprised of people who largely don’t travel. So misunderstandings persist.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by pr0tocol_7 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:35AM (#19572077)
100% Except its not a spoiled rich kid, it's a man with "20 years of experience in technology" who is most certainly not a poor american.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by chumali on Thursday April 04, 2019 @12:28PM (#19574199)
Daniel Miller is not the author of this piece. It is in fact Umair Haque, who (although I agree with the overarching point of this particular thesis) tends to churn poorly reasoned pseudo economic drivel designed purely for mass appeal.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by robenkleene on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:44AM (#19571529)
Why does this sounds farcical? I’ve spent some time in Europe, lived a couple of different countries for a year or so each, and this comparison seems generally fair to me. And wouldn’t that be the expected outcome of more socialist economic policies?
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by kodt on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:01AM (#19571734)
It may be true in some broad sense but does he expect me to believe he is unable to find a quality croissant or coffee in New York? And just has to watch mindless reality television, instead of documentaries while in the states?
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by robenkleene on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:08AM (#19571805)
Did he say you can’t find those things in New York? I read his point as generally Europeans value things like fresh bread and leisurely spending time in a cafe more than Americans. This is backed up by my own personal observations from the time I’ve spent in Europe.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by kodt on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:22AM (#19571952)
He says everything he consumes in the US is of lower quality than in Europe. If high quality goods are available in the US then he is simply choosing to consume low quality goods.

Again, you may be right about what people broadly value, but he makes it personal as if he has no choice but to consume low quality garbage while in the US. I think he was being a bit hyperbolic. Perhaps he could have said it is more work for him to consume quality food/TV in the US because of what is easily available, popular, marketed etc..

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by robenkleene on Thursday April 04, 2019 @10:41AM (#19572854)
I'll just add that I agree with almost all of your points here, but I'm still not sure I agree that the article was being hyperbolic, I think that "it is more work for him to consume quality food/TV in the US because of what is easily available, popular, marketed etc.." is essentially his point, e.g., the title is "Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?". Is that any different than asking "why is it so much work to have higher quality of life in the US?"?
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by piker on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:39AM (#19571469)
It's hilarious that the author is citing television. Is there anyone on the Earth who believes, e.g., British television is better as a whole than US television? They must really like slow-to-never-developing low budget, single camera angle crime dramas.

[Edit: Apparently so! Quite the controversial statement. However, when voting, do consider what percentage of television consumed outside of the US was produced IN the US and vice versa.]

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by richardwhiuk on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:41AM (#19571497)
The endless interruptions of adverts every 5 minutes does tend to encourage me that the experience of US television is worse.

Some of the actual content is much better, but the experience of watching television in the US is drastically worse.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by irrational on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:45AM (#19571548)
If you are seeing commercials, you are doing it wrong.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by UpperBodyEimi on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:58AM (#19571695)
I'm confused by this, how do you avoid commercials. From watching the off NFL game there's even like pre-commercial commercials. "Brought to you by <some american car company> and <drink> the official drink of <whatever> and McDonalds - I'm loving it".
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by jki275 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:12AM (#19571847)
tivo, netflix, amazon prime, hulu, etc.

I don't watch network tv anymore. Well, I don't actually watch TV at all, but you get the picture.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by UnpossibleJim on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:32AM (#19572052)
According to demographics, the market share of people watching broadcast television vs people watching "alternative media" (read streaming) was less than 50% as of the end of last year, I believe, according to some studies (though they were surveys, so it's hard to say exactly how accurate they are, but the pendulum is definitely swinging)

EDIT:

In an American survey, but this did include YouTube as a form of streaming media

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by UpperBodyEimi on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:25AM (#19571981)
I don't know about Tivo, but are all of the rest of these not available in Europe...?
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by jki275 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:31AM (#19572037)
Well, I'm using Tivo just to refer to any timeshifting device, there are plenty. I thought the others were available in some form in EU, but I could be wrong.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by murph-almighty on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:46AM (#19571554)
I think they have us beat on the reality cooking show front- British Bakeoff is an oddly positive show while the judges are still providing a valuable critique of the contestants skills. Compare this to to Chopped, which just feels rushed and intensely competitive and cutthroat.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by piker on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:49AM (#19571583)
This is fair. However, note the "as a whole" above.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by robenkleene on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:50AM (#19571599)
One, the sentence you’re responding to doesn’t say anything explicit about TV being better there, and two, I haven’t lived lived in Europe for over 15 years now, but yes when I did, the television was incredibly different and yes of course that ends up having a cultural impact. Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine[1] does a brief analysis of this between the US and Canada.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_for_Columbine

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by microcolonel on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:58AM (#19571688)
Michael Moore's impression of Canada is ridiculous, and he's convinced Americans that the U.S. has an exceptionally high rate of massacres committed with guns, when this is not the case, even among highly developed countries.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by k__ on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:44AM (#19571536)
I just know one person in my peer group who watches "classic" television.

Most people just switched to online on-demand streaming services.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by Tor3 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:59AM (#19571703)
> Is there anyone on the Earth who believes, e.g., British television is better as a whole than US television?

Well, I do. Although my interest is more in science/nature TV than dramas. In the past Discovery Channel would be about.. discovery. Science. Nature. Then it became a reality show. Just as one example. I don't find anything to watch. British television has always been, and still is way above anything anywhere when it comes to science and nature. And to be honest I prefer the British crime dramas over the US ones too.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by philk10 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:45AM (#19571550)
as a Brit who moved to the US, yeh, I love my VPN service so I can watch British TV, very few US programs I watch. And never ever live TV with the endless commercials
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by westpfelia on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:42AM (#19571506)
Yea but muh Sunday Tatort!
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by pteraspidomorph on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:58AM (#19571679)
Hell yeah, I'm neither american nor british and I much prefer british shows. I do also like Netflix originals though...
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by wozniacki on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:42AM (#19571508)
Absolutely, lets sweep the pandemic of knife crimes currently sweeping Europe - among a whole host of other related malaises and social evils too long to list here - neatly under the rug and call it a day.[1] [2]

[1]

Ten charts on the rise of knife crime in England and Wales

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089

[2]

Germany: Stabbings and Knife Crimes at Record High

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13802/germany-stabbings-k...

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by tonyedgecombe on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:50AM (#19571600)
UK homicide rate: 1.20 per 100,000

German homicide rate: 1.18 per 100,000

US homicide rate: 5.35 per 100,000

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

[dead]
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by fxj on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:08AM (#19571804)
Reason for the low convition rate [3]. The cameras were too bad:

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/koeln-silvester-justiz-101....

Perpetrators could hardly be identified

In Cologne, the charges resulted in preliminary proceedings against 290 suspects and to date in 43 indictments against a total of 52 defendants; in addition, six orders of summary punishment were issued. According to the local court, six of the cases are still pending. But most of the proceedings deal with accusations such as theft, robbery or receiving stolen goods. The allegation of sexual coercion was made in only three proceedings against a total of six accused persons.

The biggest difficulty for the investigators: Many of the suspected perpetrators of sexual assaults from New Year's Eve could only be identified with difficulty afterwards. The investigators evaluated more than 1000 hours of image material, for example from surveillance cameras. However, in most cases it was not possible to identify individual persons.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by netsharc on Thursday April 04, 2019 @12:15PM (#19574034)
To cite Benefits Street to say the whole of Europe is like that is like concluding the whole of the US is a shithole by looking at 1 street in Alabama where most of the residents are opioid-addicts , or that it's a Somalia-like warzone after looking at Chicago's south side...
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by bananasbandanas on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:59AM (#19571697)
What misinformation. Germany just had the fewest crimes in 2018 since 1992, and generally has much fewer violent crime than the US.

Some actual sources which are not from a far-right 'think tank':

Crime statistic summary (english): https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/downloads/EN/publikatione...

Crime statistic full (german): https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/downloads/DE/publikatione...

FAZ article (german): https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/kriminalstatistik...

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by fxj on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:57AM (#19571673)
German Knife Crimes Pandemic?

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/kriminalstatistik-125.html

"One of the safest countries in the world"

Interior Minister Seehofer expressed his satisfaction with the 2018 crime statistics, saying that the number of crimes had decreased by 3.6 percent. It is lower than it has been for decades, the minister said.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by arethuza on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:46AM (#19571561)
Note that the knife crime problem is in England and Wales not the entire UK and is pretty much due to a conscious decision by the then home secretary (now PM) to drastically reduce police numbers and change how they police.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by mosselman on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:09AM (#19571815)
Bold move, trying to critique Europe on violent crime statistics versus those of the US.
Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by Tade0 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:02AM (#19571740)
If I'm reading these statistics correctly the stabbing rate in Germany is now on par with the homocide rate in the US.

Of course not all stabbings are fatal.

Re:Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? by username223 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:57AM (#19571674)
Knives? We don't need such primitive tools in 'Murica: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2010_homicide_suicid...