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Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by Swizec on Friday March 29, 2019 @11:01AM (#19522283)
How do you even begin to reinforcement train a behavior you don’t understand the trigger for? That sounds fascinating!

I can understand how to train a dog if I know “Ok this person is having a seizure in X minutes, time to cue the dog”

But when you don’t know? Would you need an existing trained dog to bootstrap with? Who trained the first one?

Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by hanoz on Friday March 29, 2019 @11:09AM (#19522336)
Presumably this effect was first noticed without any training, when dogs who'd witnessed their owners having seizures made the connection and started to get agitated when another was imminent.
Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by cgriswald on Friday March 29, 2019 @01:00PM (#19523437)
There is a scent, I believe it is a hormone but I don’t think it is what the body actually produces. If a dog reacts to it they can try to train it. If it doesn’t, they train the dog for something else or find it a good home. They also have people fake seizures. You can probably find some YouTube videos of it.

We have a dog that could do it. She could warn us about my partner’s seizures and fainting a few minutes before it happened. She could fetch help and apply pressure to the abdomen. (I say could because my partner had surgery a year ago and hasn’t had any seizures or fainting since then.)

I definitely noticed a change in my partner before seizures (but not fainting). The dog alerted on me once during a moment of high anxiety. I wouldn’t begin to argue WHAT the dog is actually reacting to, but the training methods people are using seem to work.

Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by hinkley on Friday March 29, 2019 @02:51PM (#19524441)
I wonder if the fake seizures confuse the dogs about what signs to look for... Might be a quantity over quality problem though (how would you train enough dogs without faking it?)
Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by cgriswald on Friday March 29, 2019 @05:20PM (#19525786)
I’m not an expert on this so I’m just guessing but I think the fake seizures are more for training what to do during the seizure rather than the detection part.
Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by guitarbill on Friday March 29, 2019 @11:19AM (#19522421)
> More specifically, the training for SAD required three main steps. First a positive association is created between the scent of a seizure and treats in order to induce a conditioned emotional response.

The paper goes into a bit of detail on training, but it's a fair and interesting point: How do they get the seizure scent? I guess you could maybe take a sample just after a seizure, or a second person could do it if they were present and prepared to take it.

Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by turkeysandwich on Friday March 29, 2019 @12:19PM (#19522973)
They took samples after/during seizures.
Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by dymk on Friday March 29, 2019 @01:15PM (#19523592)
Samples of what, though? Sweat? Clothing?
Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by turkeysandwich on Friday March 29, 2019 @01:29PM (#19523738)
Sweat.
Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by uf on Friday March 29, 2019 @11:22AM (#19522439)
Stimulus generalization comes to mind. IIRC Pavlows dogs at some point reacted not just to the food, but even earlier on him entering the room.

I doubt that they train dogs like "Steve's having a seizure. Good! Get that dog here."

I imagine that you do a preliminary training with faked seizures to get responses right and then hope (meaning: Train under real conditions) that the dog will react on a real seizure as well.

Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by codeulike on Friday March 29, 2019 @11:20AM (#19522428)
I imagine you train them to react to seizures, and they figure the predictive bit out themselves, if they are able to.
Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by criddell on Friday March 29, 2019 @01:40PM (#19523850)
How do you rule out the possibility that dogs cause seizures?
Re:Dogs demonstrate the existence of an epileptic seizure od... by fwip on Friday March 29, 2019 @01:58PM (#19524008)
The patient already had seizures before getting a seizure dog.