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Re:Google launches AMP for email by karussell on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @05:28PM (#19496190)
- the way people navigate (Google Maps)

- the way people get news (Google News)

- the way people learn about their website (Google Analytics)

- the way people fight spam (reCaptcha)

Re:Google launches AMP for email by minimaul on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @05:36PM (#19496267)
All excellent additions. Others:

- a major way of embedding web fonts (Google Fonts)

- a hugely successful cloud document suite (Google Docs)

- a safe browsing service, making them effective gatekeepers of what can load in Chrome (Google Safe Browsing)

- an ever growing system for schools to manage assignments (Google Classroom) - this one particularly concerns me because paired with Chromebooks, it brings kids into an entirely closed Google ecosystem very young

Re:Google launches AMP for email by asaddhamani on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @08:08PM (#19497078)
Also

- One of the most popular ways for running surveys / forms (Google Forms)

Re:Google launches AMP for email by karussell on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @05:46PM (#19496327)
Never heard of Safe Browsing and Classroom (probably because I'm not using Chrome) but Docs and Fonts are definitely true!

> this one particularly concerns me because paired with Chromebooks, it brings kids into an entirely closed Google ecosystem very young

I'm not too concerned as many other big corporations (Apple, Microsoft) are fighting this ;)

Re:Google launches AMP for email by propogandist on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @08:25PM (#19497183)
even if you're using firefox, it uses Google safebrowsing to check URLs you're visiting -- even sending your URL data to Google.

The other corporations are only fighting small battles, but you can't compete with free, which is how Google gains its foothold.

Re:Google launches AMP for email by jefftk on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @08:55PM (#19497323)
> even sending your URL data to Google

"Each site you visit is checked against the Safe Browsing list on your system. If there's a match, your browser sends Google a hashed, partial copy of the site’s URL so that Google can send more information to your browser. Google cannot determine the real URL from this information." -- https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/privacy/#safe-browsing...

There's no way Firefox would be ok with sending all their user's visited URLs to Google.

(Disclosure: I work at Google)

Re:Google launches AMP for email by OJFord on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @04:33AM (#19498966)
+1 just for getting 'disclosure' right...
Re:Google launches AMP for email by karussell on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @11:51AM (#19502142)
If it is a hash it could still see if a certain website was visited. Is this right?

How do I disable this in Firefox? Is this the section about "Content Blocking"?

Re:Google launches AMP for email by jefftk on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @02:04PM (#19503950)
Firefox docs are on https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Safe_Browsing and offer a range of config knobs.
Re:Google launches AMP for email by arendtio on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @05:41PM (#19496303)
And I thought reCaptcha was invented to torture and condition humans.
Re:Google launches AMP for email by dx034 on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @03:11AM (#19498671)
Is there any alternative to reCaptcha? As I understand, it's the only system that works well against most spammers, is free to use and easy to integrate. I'd be happy to switch to another provider but haven't found anything remotely as easy and effective.
Re:Google launches AMP for email by mpol on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @06:08AM (#19499434)
reCAPTCHA is a terrible thing for the web, in my experience. It is user hostile. It only gets used on websites because it is easy to set up. But really, the only reason someone would use it is because it is cheap and easy. There are much better options available that are less user hostile.

Akismet is a third party service that works really well. You send data there with a HTTP POST and it will reply with a yes or no, it is spam or not spam. It is not that hard to implement. You do have to be aware that you are sending user data to that service, which you have to mention in your privacy policy.

Stop Forum Spam is a similar third party service. You send it an ip address and an email address. It will reply on both items if it is spam, together with a confidence level. Quite interesting way to reply :) It is originally intended to fight registration spam, but you can use it for comment spam or contact forms as well.

JavaScript spamfilters can be very usefull. Most spambots do a HTTP GET for a page with a form. They fill in all the fields and submit it with a HTTP POST. They don't run any JavaScript on that page. You can have honeypot and timeout fields on a form that get manipulated by JavaScript, and spambots will not validate. Works really well, and all transparent to the user. The only "risk" is that in the future spammers might start using more sophisticated spambots, like using Electron or Chromium. I implemented spamfilters like this in a WordPress plugin and it works really well for me: https://wordpress.org/plugins/la-sentinelle-antispam/

Re:Google launches AMP for email by lucb1e on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @03:54AM (#19498817)
Making your own works fine, even if it's a simple "type these words". On HN I see enough articles about breaking reCAPTCHAs with (claimed) 90% accuracy and I know spammers also employ humans. You can't make the perfect CAPTCHA, but anything custom will almost certainly do. For smaller sites it's also perfectly fine to just include a few "are you humans?" type questions to which people should reply "yes" or some other obvious answer. Having to spend development effort just to flood you with messages is probably not worth it. You will still get the one-off message when the CAPTCHA was solved by a poor worker anyway.

My knowledge is a year or two out of date (haven't hosted forms in popular websites anymore), but it doesn't seem like this could have changed that rapidly. Bots don't suddenly understand English, and neural nets aren't much better or worse at word CAPTCHAs than picture CAPTCHAs. It's just that Google didn't need books anymore.

I do still host a bug report form on a smaller site, and that just filters <a href, and more recently, http://. If someone enters that, the site gives the helpful message that http is not allowed for spam reasons and they should use hxxp:// instead and that I'll understand what they meant. Haven't gotten any spam since I started including that.

The cases where reCAPTCHA is a good idea are really rare. Logins can be solved with exponential back-off, forms can use spam filters similar to email and a simple CAPTCHA to catch the vast majority. With reCAPTCHA, I often spend minutes solving the because Google has no other markers to go on (deleting cookies, localstorage). I used to not mind them when other people were all complaining about those word CAPTCHAs (I found them easy) but now reCAPTCHA just take your time instead of your reading skills and they're absolutely awful. It rewards not using privacy technologies in your browser and so a lot of laymen don't experience the issues. Please don't use reCAPTCHA if at all possible...

Re:Google launches AMP for email by JohnFen on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @06:10PM (#19506657)
But it's painful to your users, and will lock out a subset of them (although a small minority, so you might not care).
Re:Google launches AMP for email by baud147258 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:58AM (#19513454)
and the users locked out can't contact support, since it's also protected by reCAPTCHA
Re:Google launches AMP for email by auslander on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @03:20AM (#19498703)
If you'd found such service, but it would be paid one, what price, per 1000 checks, would be ok for you?
Re:Google launches AMP for email by why_only_15 on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @09:57PM (#19497589)
News to me doesn't seem that popular of a news mechanism but the others are extremely widespread. With maps you have Apple Maps but that's a bing-tier competitor.
Re:Google launches AMP for email by drywater on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @03:21AM (#19498707)
It’s embedded in newer Androids (by default I think). At least in my region it’s the channel to what’s worse in the news space.
Re:Google launches AMP for email by yread on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @07:27PM (#19496870)
Google DNS is also pretty big