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Re:Update on New Zealand by panarky on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @05:14PM (#19435955)
There's a peculiar "Facebook style" in their public communications.

On the surface, their words appear simple, straightforward and open, as if there's nothing to hide.

But when you read closely, their words obscure the truth and distort reality. They quote highly specific and heavily lawyered facts that may be technically true, while remaining silent on facts that would give real insight.

Facebook's words support their strategy to "delay, deny and deflect" [0]. Here are a few examples from this post.

> We removed the attacker’s video within minutes of their outreach to us

The word "their" refers to the New Zealand Police. This is Facebook's deflection strategy in action.

Facebook is responsible for what they disseminate on their platform, not the NZ police.

Facebook doesn't disclose exactly how long they continued to distribute this poison, from start to end. Instead they hide behind the NZ police, shirking their own responsibility for their own platform.

The truth is that Facebook continued to disseminate this material for many hours, not mere "minutes" as they would have us believe.

> Including the views during the live broadcast, the video was viewed about 4000 times in total before being removed from Facebook

Seems straightforward but it's anything but. Facebook wants uncritical journalists to quote "4000 times" but that's a meaningless number if "the video" only refers to the original livestreamed video.

Facebook's carefully worded statement may be technically true but it's highly misleading.

What about the hundreds of thousands of copies that Facebook disseminated? How many views did they get, almost certainly orders of magnitude greater than 4,000.

And what is the definition of a "view"? Is Facebook getting tricky with definitions, so it only counts as a view if the user watched 20% or 50% or 100% of it?

> In the first 24 hours, we removed about 1.5 million videos of the attack globally. More than 1.2 million of those videos were blocked at upload

So 300,000 copies were NOT blocked. Facebook doesn't tell us how many views the copies got because they want you to assume it's only 4000.

Facebook doesn't disclose long it took to identify and remove the copies because they want us to anchor on misleading stats like "4000" and "minutes".

> Before we were alerted to the video, a user on 8chan posted a link to a copy of the video on a file-sharing site.

Deflection. See, it's an industry-wide problem, it's not just Facebook.

> This incident highlights the importance of industry cooperation

More deflection. Don't regulate Facebook, even though we're responsible for 90% or more of the weaponization of social media. Instead, waste more years searching for "industry-wide" solutions and self-regulation.

> We identified abusive content on other social media sites

Even more deflection.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/technology/facebook-data-...

Re:Update on New Zealand by rconti on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @05:39PM (#19436256)
1.5 million videos of the attack? As in, not Shares, but someone downloading or capping the video somehow, and re-uploading it?

Damn, that's a LOT of people with access to the original source, or a copy of a copy, having a really strong desire to share the video on their personal or throwaway account.

Re:Update on New Zealand by panarky on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @05:59PM (#19436466)
This is what gets lost in Facebook's statement, by design.

The killer livestreamed to Facebook and people captured that video and re-uploaded back to Facebook 1,500,000 times.

A cursory read of their statement would have you believe it was only viewed 4,000 times.

This is criminally dishonest.

Re:Update on New Zealand by parliament32 on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @06:03PM (#19436510)
That number also strikes me as odd; it's improbably high. They're most likely referring to removing shares/links to the video, not re-uploads.
Re:Update on New Zealand by panarky on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @06:52PM (#19436960)
> In the first 24 hours, we removed about 1.5 million videos of the attack globally. More than 1.2 million of those videos were blocked at upload, and were therefore prevented from being seen on our services.

1.2m "blocked at upload". Not shares or links.

Remaining 300k were not "blocked at upload".

This is why Facebook's specific numbers like "4000 times" are so insidious and deceptive.

It's what they intentionally neglect to say that's important here.

Re:Update on New Zealand by bryan_w on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @02:58AM (#19439677)
I'm not sure why you think this point is deceptive. In the 24 hr period, 1.2 mil videos were blocked at upload 300k videos were uploaded, reported and blocked. That's pretty clear from the statement. Am I missing something?
Re:Update on New Zealand by panarky on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @09:34AM (#19441936)
I see many quotes that the video was only viewed 4000 times, and that Facebook blocked it "within minutes".

That's deceptive because it only covers the original video and not the copies which is really irrelevant.

And it's deceptive because it starts the clock when NZ police alerted Facebook, even though it's Facebook's responsibility to manage their platform, not the police's responsibility.

If the video was re-uploaded and not blocked 300,000 times, then total views is most likely in the millions.

And Facebook continued to disseminate this material for thousands of minutes.

I can only conclude these more important numbers are intentionally excluded from Facebook's report because Facebook wants people to focus on the other, meaningless numbers instead.

That's deceptive.

Re:Update on New Zealand by nervousvarun on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @05:19PM (#19436024)
All true but said more succinctly: Facebook communications are vetted by their legal team.
Re:Update on New Zealand by jacquesm on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @05:30PM (#19436155)
Facebook's legal team is not in charge of their ethics, the CEO is, and the CEO determines what gets posted. The legal team serves at the pleasure of the CEO and they're free to hire a lawyer that would come up with language more in line of what the CEO desires. So you can take it to the bank that just like the legal team vetted the text the CEO in turn vetted the legal team and they are operating under some kind of mandate.
Re:Update on New Zealand by panarky on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @05:33PM (#19436187)
"Vet" implies they're ensuring it's true.

Instead Facebook is publishing PR that does more to mislead than inform.

And they're doing it with simple language that makes it appear they're being open and honest when they're actually hiding the important bits in order to deceive.