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Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by ashleyn on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:28PM (#19391971)
Private, yes. Government, no. Amazon is courageously admitting that ignorance is still ignorance and that they have the right not to comply with ignorance.

Dangerous, anti-science literature was on the top of their own charts, and ignoring that has moral implications. Amazon has decided indulging populist fervor and the "wisdom of crowds" does not rank higher than protecting general welfare where they have an influence.

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by jerf on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:32PM (#19392009)
Why should I trust Amazon's assessment of whether or not those books constituted "ignorance"?

(Think carefully. Most people will "want" to answer the seemingly-closely-related question "Why do you think these books are 'ignorance'?", but that is not the same question!)

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by ashleyn on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:36PM (#19392073)
You're not under any obligation to. Amazon isn't really a monopoly. The only "sin" they've committed is refusing to cooperate with the implications and consequences of listing pseudoscience on their own best seller list amid a public health crisis rooted in populist ignorance.
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by ptero on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:50PM (#19392253)
> Amazon isn't really a monopoly.

I would completely agree with what you said about the rights of the private companies if Amazon was a regular market player. But even you qualified above statement. Even though Amazon is not really a monopoly, it is pretty close for small scale book selling. That is, it has such a dominant market share that its decision not to sell a book can be a death sentence for a small book publisher. Thus they should be super careful when culling titles by content -- next time they might pull <insert your favorite hot topic> and there will be no recourse either.

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by asdkhadsj on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:35PM (#19392057)
> Why should I trust Amazon's assessment of whether or not those books constituted "ignorance"?

Why do you have to trust Amazon's assessment? You don't have to trust my assessment of anything, either. Nor I yours. So why are you debating whether or not you should trust Amazon's?

I don't agree with plenty of things corporations do. I'm confused on what point you're trying to make?

edit: This is a question if it's not clear. Please answer.

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by tanilama on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:50PM (#19392247)
You probably shouldn't trust anyone but your own.

But it is not Amazon's duty to prepare such books in store just in case you want to assess ignorance level of certain works. They are tens of millions of books out there, are we going to blame search engine to not presented all of them to you in order to be, not biased, and supporting freedom of speech/expression/searchability? Probably not.

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by sombremesa on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:33PM (#19392042)
Sure, you shouldn't, but everyone does - just like they trust Facebook, Google, et al. The only difference in this instance is they're telling you how they influenced your experience. Mostly they just do it quietly. :)
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by toomanyrichies on Thursday March 14, 2019 @10:30PM (#19395924)
It’s not Amazon’s assessment. It’s science’s. Amazon is simply going along for the ride, deferring to those who have spent their lives researching the issue at hand.

You’re under no obligation to accept science’s assessment of the facts. But if you choose to reject it, be ready to do a better job of making your case than the scientific community has done making theirs. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by hanniabu on Thursday March 14, 2019 @03:06PM (#19392431)
They're unscientific. It's not Amazon's assessment, it's a filtering based off the assessment of science-backed research.
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by mannykannot on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:33PM (#19392039)
On the subject of thinking carefully... are you being forced to accept Amazon's assessment?
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by jerf on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:37PM (#19392091)
I personally am not and do not at the moment [1], but one of the reasons I'm strongly in favor of a whole lotta anti-trust action is that such decisions have out-sized marketing impact in the current environment.

I also observe that the censorship frontier is moving quickly and taking a lot of ground in the past couple of years, and while I may not be forced to accept it today, the trend is heading strongly in a direction of yes, outright forcing me to accept a very Amazon-like decision about what should and should not be censored. It's strong enough that I feel it's acceptable for me to not just ignore these facts.

[1]: I mean this globally about Amazon's gestalt opinion, not this specific case. One of my kids is diagnosed autistic and the other has the doctor's scratching their heads and kinda headed in that direction, and my wife and I have both looked at the "autism community", and steered hard away from it. There's all sorts of things wrong in there, at least on the loudest side of it. While I have no specific knowledge of the books in question, my priors have no problem accepting the idea that they are full of stupid and dangerous advice.

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by phamilton on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:36PM (#19392082)
I think most people want to answer "Don't buy from Amazon".
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by asdffdsa on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:29PM (#19391985)
Should Freud's books be pulled too for being unscientific?
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by ashleyn on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:32PM (#19392018)
Freud's books aren't currently inflaming a public health crisis. That being said, if Amazon felt as such, they could do it for whatever reason they felt. Or not do it. The point is that if they're not a monopoly, private or public, the argument that populism supercedes their property rights is a very poor one.
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by asdffdsa on Thursday March 14, 2019 @07:28PM (#19394952)
Freud's books when they came out were wildly inflammatory. I'm not really arguing against Amazon's right to not publish, I'm trying to figure out when it is acceptable for people to censor ideas so others will not discover them, and on what basis something should be deemed 'ignorant' given the complication that each individual is subject to the ignorance of their time.
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by toomanyrichies on Thursday March 14, 2019 @10:54PM (#19396035)
> I’m trying to figure out when it is acceptable for people to censor ideas so others will not discover them

Perhaps when not doing so would perpetuate the resurgence of a life-threatening disease that, until 20 years ago, was virtually eliminated in the US?

> each individual is subject to the ignorance of their time.

True. They are also subject to the responsibility to think rationally and use the provable, reproducible evidence at their disposal to make decisions. Especially when those decisions have life-or-death implications not only for their children, but others’ children as well.

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by mikestew on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:31PM (#19392002)
Your question would be better directed to Amazon's buyers, as it's their store and they get to decide what they do and do not sell.
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by rubyn00bie on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:33PM (#19392032)
You’re making a false equivalency. Freud’s books were once considered science and are, at a minimum, of historical value.

These are not scientific. They are not necessary for historical purposes or archiving. They are purely malicious words made to ruin people’s lives for profit...

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by easytiger on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:37PM (#19392090)
OK. So now amazon decide to ban something you agree with? What then?
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by daenz on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:54PM (#19392300)
Then it will become "the government should make laws to stop private businesses from doing that," like it always does. People who defend censorship with the private business argument are often arguing in bad faith, because they don't really support the rights of private businesses, they're just using that angle to convince those that do.
Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by da_chicken on Thursday March 14, 2019 @02:55PM (#19392309)
I would say:

Private, yes, until it has been shown to harm the public good to do so.

Government, no, until it has been shown to harm the public good to not do so.

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by mirimir on Thursday March 14, 2019 @04:04PM (#19393040)
Sure, but just what is "anti-science"?

What Amazon said:

> Mr. Huseman also said in the letter that Amazon had conducted a review of anti-vaccination books and “found categorizations that were not consistent with our customers’ expectations.” The company, he said, was “actively working to resolve this.”

That is, Amazon doesn't want to piss off its customers. So basically they are in fact "indulging populist fervor and the 'wisdom of crowds'".

Edit: Here, Amazon is arguably pulling hazardous books. But I'm reminded how the tobacco industry accused its critics of promoting "junk science" and being "anti-science". As did many firms that were polluting the environment. And those who deny anthropogenic global climate change.

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by spaginal on Thursday March 14, 2019 @04:35PM (#19393406)
Define anti-science literature.

As we steamroll at full speed into the Brave New World, does any book, piece of art, or piece of literature that goes against current popular thought become "anti-science literature" and thus promoted for removal.

Plenty of people could make an argument that implementing communism is just good rational and logical policy and thinking, and anyone not wishing to do so is illogical, irrational, and anti-science, therefore we simply remove any literature relating to human freedom, free markets, or the constitution. Does that solve the problem?

How about books on biology that clearly make a distinction between male and female genders. When the political transgender movement becomes locked in, do we simply ban all books that expose two genders as "anti-science literature"?

Re:Amazon Pulls Books That Promote Unscientific Autism ‘Cures’ by krapp on Thursday March 14, 2019 @04:59PM (#19393652)
> Define anti-science literature.

Anti (preposition): opposed to, or against.

Science (noun): the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Literature (noun): books and writings published on a particular subject.

>As we steamroll at full speed into the Brave New World, does any book, piece of art, or piece of literature that goes against current popular thought become "anti-science literature" and thus promoted for removal.

No. It is not true that any book, piece of art or literature can or will be deemed "anti-science literature". It is also not true that Amazon's ability to curate its own platform - an ability it has always had, and has always shared with every private enterprise, and has, with all other platforms, exercised before, represents a dangerous precedent towards the wholesale societal censorship of everything that "goes against current thought." Further, it is not the case that the books in question merely represent "wrongthink," making their removal an example of such. And also, we are not steamrolling into the Brave New World.

Bringing up Brave New World, 1984 or Martin Niemoller's poem in on the internet should be considered signs of pseudointellectual poserdom.

>Plenty of people could make an argument that implementing communism is just good rational (...)

no.

We live in a society. Society is run by human beings capable of perceiving nuance and applying rationality and discretion to their decisions. The fact that an equivalence can be made, does not mean that all equivalences must be made. Amazon choosing to remove these books from their platform does not lead to the slippery slope of removing all literature related to human freedom, free markets and the constitution.

>How about books on biology that clearly make a distinction between male and female genders. (...)

Again: no.