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Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by jimmy1 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @09:10AM (#19378216)
> the pain is real, it's just caused by processes in your brain,

I don't find this particular statement very revolutionary. We have known for a long time that physical pain is manufactured by the brain as an evolutionary tactic to help us prevent further harm to ourselves. If we didn't "feel pain" when we were on fire, we would burn to death.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by nateberkopec on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @09:23AM (#19378322)
I completely agree with you, but our society has such a stigma around mental illness that if you tell someone their back pain is caused by repressed emotions, you get what happens in the article.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by theli0nheart on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:33AM (#19379008)
> if you tell someone their back pain is caused by repressed emotions, you get what happens in the article.

But...you would (or could?, or should?) never tell someone that, because how would you know? Maybe there is some link but to conclude that it could be the case is pretty silly.

So it's not like that's a stigma, it's just a statement not based in fact that evokes a strong reaction because you're telling someone why they're feeling a certain way when in reality you have no idea at all.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:46AM (#19379141)
Yeah, I think the thing a lot of commenters are missing is that the medical field itself has a pretty bad history of telling people "it's all in your head" when there turned out to be specific, treatable biological causes. This is especially true for CFS, where for a long time it was seen not just to be psychosomatic, but actually "not really that bad."

As another example, stress was blamed as the main cause of ulcers for decades, when an H pylori infection turned out to be the primary culprit.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by internet_user on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:16PM (#19381693)
There is also HUGE amounts of money involved. Especially huge ramifications come to the fact that you could either have extra 10 billion dollars paid out to CFS claimants, or you could spend them on your pet projects....what would one with power to decide the outcome of that do...?

Only the good things, of course, because they are all angels.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by NikkiA on Friday March 15, 2019 @10:29AM (#19399990)
For most of the '00s and around '10-12, CFS wasn't even seen as a real thing, but purely imaginary.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by nateberkopec on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:57AM (#19379942)
I used "you" in the wrong way here. You == qualified medical people, such as in the article. Not you == oneself/one.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by falcor84 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:41AM (#19379093)
Well, repressed emotions is a term that doesn't have any clear physiological meaning and I think that might be the problem. I see a lot of success around the acceptance of the term "stress" which has clear physiological as well as psychological meanings, both for professionals and lay people. Maybe we need more terminology like this.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by internet_user on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:05PM (#19381574)
Oh so you've already made the conclusion its a mental illness?

You are the reason why such reactions occur.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by jvagner on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:53AM (#19379203)
honestly and earnestly, i also think a psychological condition that can (in most cases) be adjusted is taking society seriously. without a filter, and in some cases a firewall... "society" can also be the source of chronic pain.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by mikojan on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @09:53AM (#19378572)
Maybe it's because you're not a doctor
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by ergothus on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:35AM (#19379034)
I felt plenty of resentment and disbelief when a doctor said it. (Not about RSI in my case, but the point that "it's in your head" does not come off well.)
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by kmundnic on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:50AM (#19379174)
I used to feel the same way, until I read Sarno’s book. The way he explained what psychosomatic means completely changed my perspective over it.

I think the main problem with many doctors is the fact that the patient tends to feel blamed when told that their minds are causing the problem. This is not Sarno’s approach at all, since he states that chronic pain can be seen as a defense mechanism against deep negative emotions.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by jerf on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @09:39AM (#19378468)
"I don't find this particular statement very revolutionary."

It depends on how you read it, since the short 12-word summary could be read dozens of different ways. There's ways in which trivially, of course, duh, pain is in the brain, where else would it be? But there's also ways in which it stands in stark contrast to what most people implicitly believe.

Take your (you, the reader, not kimmy1 specifically) beliefs about the nature of pain, and explicitly hold it up to the concept of phantom limb syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_limb And make extra sure to read the section about mirror box treatment. (That it works at all, for anyone, is the important point, not whether it's a miracle cure for all sufferers.)

You may already have heard about these things, but have you explicitly examined your beliefs about pain to ensure they incorporpate these ideas?

I don't know about fibromyalgia, but it wouldn't shock me that much if there is something a lot like phantom limb syndrome out there that confuses us by causing phantom pain in body parts that exist. For eminently rational reasons it would be a long time before we worked out way down to that hypothesis.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by gumby on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:06AM (#19378711)
> There's ways in which trivially, of course, duh, pain is in the brain, where else would it be?

Actually nociceptive pain is by definition not in the brain and is fundamentally somatic. However somehow it is privileged by society: it’s “real” pain while those others are “all in your head”.

The sad thing is that the scientist is validating these phenomena yet the critics don’t understand that.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by ethbro on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:19AM (#19379518)
It goes a level deeper than that. Learned from dating a very good massage therapist for awhile, our minds relatively commonly cause physical changes that lead to pain symptoms.

E.g. you subconsciously favor your back, leading to overexertion of other muscles, leading to physical degradation and pain from those muscles

Talking with her was eye opening on the amount of sub-major muscle "stuff" that is constantly subconsciously working in our muscular-skeletal system.

"You hold tension in your neck" is a remarkably complex statement (and solution).

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by jayd16 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:50AM (#19379861)
Is that considered psychosomatic, though? I don't think this fits the topic at hand.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by ethbro on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @12:30PM (#19380314)
It's a blurry line. If I've caused permanent damage to my back because I've been subconsciously holding it incorrectly for decades, is that damage psychosomatic?
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by hisnameisjimmy on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @12:46PM (#19380551)
If you go with the Sarno theory though, the damage is very unlikely to be permanent, and any lingering pain is still based in repressed, stressful emotions.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by rcxdude on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @09:46AM (#19378524)
The point being, that when you are on fire, you feel pain as a consequence of your pain receptors in your body firing in response to tissue damage. Depending on circumstances, You can also feel pain without these receptors firing, and you can also feel no or little pain when these receptors are firing a lot. You can say that the pain originates either from the receptors or from something internally in the brain. Naively you might describe the first type as 'real' and the second as 'imaginary', which is of scant use to downright dismissive of the person actually experiencing said pain.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by PaulHoule on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:32AM (#19379660)
That is true about acute pain.

It is not true about chronic pain. Acute pain will get better if you rest, chronic pain won't.

Most chronic pain sufferers will feel better if they behave as if the pain doesn't exist, increase their activities, get less depressed, feel less pain...

The core of fibro identity, however, is that fibros don't experience the benefits of exercise, they get the pain but they don't get the gain. That might be true. I have seen fibros try something new and get hurt even more quickly than heroin adicts.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by internet_user on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:09PM (#19381614)
That's because most cases of fibro is undiagnosed small fiber neuropathy.

Nothing to do with psychology, and everything to do with destruction of peripheral nerve tissue.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by everdev on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @09:48AM (#19378538)
I think the point is that with the common understanding of bodily pain there's usually a physical initiation like a pin prick.

OC is saying that the pain can originate in the brain itself without any external force on the body.