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Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by cbsks on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @01:50AM (#19376086)
Nothing about this surprises me. Just another thing in the long list of ways that wealthy people are able to keep their wealth, and pass it on to their children.

I had college paid for in full by my parents, and they also were able to provide a good portion of the down payment on my house. My parents aren’t exceptionally wealthy, but they have been able to give my siblings and I a very good head start on life. And if they were wealthier, they would have been able to provide even more advantages to us. The whole system is rigged, and has been for a very long time.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by lwhalen on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:08AM (#19376163)
What's stopping you from going full Siddhartha, selling your house/earthly possessions, and giving the wad to the first homeless person you see on your way out of town to live your best ascetic life?

Caring for and providing as much of an advantage to your kids as one is able is a basic human (one could even argue 'mammalian') behavior. I'm disappointed that the narrative is trying to label such hard-coded behavior as everything from 'evil' to 'frowned upon'.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:31AM (#19376243)
> "I'm disappointed that the narrative is trying to label such hard-coded behavior as everything from 'evil' to 'frowned upon'."

The problem isn't so much that it is frowned up or declared evil, but it's that we have somehow built the worst of both worlds: we are most definitely not a "privilege-free" meritocracy, but we like to pretend that we are. The British aristocracy gave their kids all the advantages they could, too, but at least everyone knew that system was unfair and the concept of "noblesse oblige" came out of that knowledge. We've replaced noblesse oblige with "I got all my success through my own brilliance so screw your lazy ass."

I'm not suggesting we return to an aristocratic system, but I am suggesting we fully acknowledge the role of unfair advantage, and luck, in anyone's success, in addition to their own skill and hard work.

One of the things I found most interesting about the current scandal is that one of the parents paid over a million dollars to commit this fraud. With numbers that big you have to wonder why they just didn't give a donation that large - probably would have had a similar effect. I think one main reason is that a donation would make everyone say "Oh, well your kid got in because of your huge donation." (See Jared Kushner). Committing the fraud allows the fiction that it was just skill and hard work that was the reason for the acceptance to continue.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by stickfigure on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @03:33AM (#19376511)
I think you have an overly rosy view of the aristocracy of old. That social institution involved a hereditary monarchy, and you don't have to go very far back before the term divine right was being thrown around. Talk about entitlement...

If you go back in history, I believe you'll find that most socially advantaged people simply thought they were inherently better than others. "I worked harder", whether true or not, is a better narrative.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by EliRivers on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @05:10AM (#19376974)
If you go back in history, I believe you'll find that most socially advantaged people simply thought they were inherently better than others.

That's true now, is it not? It's certainly a common view. People who are rich deserve it; they are more deserving. They're better people. They must be, because how else would they be rich? In the US meritocracy (and indeed, many others), anyone who has done well must have done it through merit because that's how the system works, so they must be a better person.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by stickfigure on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:41AM (#19379100)
My understanding is that a few hundred years ago most wealth was inherited land. Aristocracy was something you were born into. I'd love to see some statistics, but I believe the percentage of "self-made" people is much higher today.

Modern society may have its flaws, but I do think this particular historical trend is positive.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by EliRivers on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:05AM (#19397907)
Although the trend is now heading back towards that (in some places, including the US and the UK); the wealth of your parents is a stronger indicator of future success than it was fifty years ago.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by TheOtherHobbes on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @04:56AM (#19376903)
I don't think people in Britain do realise the system is unfair.

The political system is currently having a meltdown because it has done an excellent job of eliminating the non-rich, but an absolutely terrible job of finding rich people with real merit.

So we've had a few years of entitled morons - not an exaggeration, in any way - from all the best schools and universities doing and saying incredibly stupid things.

And yet... the polish remains untarnished. Oxford and Cambridge are still considered ivy-festooned havens of academic excellence, and not bought-and-paid-for finishing schools for academically mediocre plutocrats.

A handily supportive media means many voters still trust and respect the plutocrats, in spite of the evidence that they're essentially just self-serving wasters, and not too bright at that.

It's too late to return to an aristocratic system, because we already have one. So, by all accounts, does the US - although both are camouflaged by an expediently deceitful narrative of tough self-made meritocracy which is wholly dishonest.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by titanomachy on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:43AM (#19376276)
Did noblesse oblige ever really do any good for the lower classes?
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by kop316 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @09:33AM (#19378409)
I wanted to respond to this because I feel that a lot of reply's are black and white when the real scale is very much a shade of grey.

I agree with you that providing with your kids is a basic human behavior. My fiancés parents fled their country to come to the USA to give themselves and their kids a better live. A lot of people work hard because they want to provide that for their family. I think that is productive and great.

But there is the opposite side of it shown here. People abuse their power and wealth to provide a very clearly unfair advantage. And to make it worse, a lot of society rewards it. I have been in conversations where company X only hires from Ivy Leagues and 4.0 GPAs, and there is a very perceived notion that having such an education will get you places you can't otherwise do it.

One of the brightest and best coworkers I worked with had an average GPA from a state school (he was from that state), and was rejected by several employers. Personally, I look for the ~3.0 GPA student who worked through college, or can show more than just school and a 4.0 GPA. I know that student worked hard to get where they are, and that they have hit their heads against the wall to figure out something.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by rixed on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @03:57AM (#19376631)
Hardcoded behaviours that successfully allowed small clans to thrive are not necessarily the best use of resources in large scale societies.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by FranzFerdiNaN on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:20AM (#19376202)
Something that is good for the individual is not necessarily good for society. Such as wealth-based admission to college, which is good for the wealthy but terrible for society.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by cf498 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:18AM (#19376194)
Its only reasonable that individuals do it but it isnt healthy for society as a whole, as it leads to an entrenched class system.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by morsch on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @04:51AM (#19376879)
I don't think the parents are evil. But nepotism isn't a desirable attribute for society. It doesn't award innovation and fosters dissatisfaction. It's self reinforcing, which is always a dangerous attribute.

As with other antisocial trends, we just need to implement strategies to counter it. This is already something we do -- eg. scholarships --, so while it might sound harsh, it isn't particularly controversial. We probably need to intensify our efforts.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by Err_Eek on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:23AM (#19376213)
It is normal behavior, everyone does it. But as that passed down wealth becomes more and more essential for a good life, society at large should stop pushing the myth that it is largely meritocratic, especially as lines between social classes become more rigid by the day.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by ionised on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @06:49AM (#19377486)
There is plenty of human or mammalian behaviour that we don't view as axiomatic virtues in the way you do, and take steps to curb or change them.

This is one we can and should change.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by lwhalen on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:41PM (#19382004)
Citation needed. We are monkeys with drugs and guns. Any attempt to deny that basic premise is doomed to failure.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by ionised on Thursday March 14, 2019 @10:56AM (#19389773)
We deny that basic premise every day by building and maintaining a civilisation.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by lwhalen on Thursday March 14, 2019 @03:41PM (#19392803)
Groundhogs, dolphins, whales, monkeys (other 'great primates'), etc, all have a regular social order with shared/close living quarters. Just because they don't have specious (pun intended) arguments with strangers over an electronic communications network doesn't mean they aren't some value of 'civilized'.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by collyw on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:06AM (#19379352)
A friend was discussing that inheritance is the root of a good deal of inequality in the world - and I agreed. But if the alternative is giving it to a corrupt government to redistribute your wealth, then I still prefer to give it to family. And I say that as someone who doens't plan to have children.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by soVeryTired on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @05:07AM (#19376958)
I don't think it's unreasonable to act in your best interest within the rules set out by the system, while simultaneously recognising that the system is unfair and wanting to change it.

As the kids these days say, "don't hate the player, hate the game".

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by cbsks on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @12:42PM (#19380503)
I would do that... but I like my house and my stuff. Plus, my wife wouldn't approve.

I am not saying that it is 'evil' but it does contribute to the wealth gap in our society. I definitely don't want it to go away, I want my children to get the same benefits that I had!

I guess my point is that the entire system is rigged and because so many people have benefited from it, including me, it's not going to be fixed anytime soon. It's important to recognize the ways in which the system is rigged so that we can level the playing field where we can.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by pesmhey on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @09:54AM (#19378579)
Social cohesion is also a basic mammalian and human behavior. Power disparities make it really hard to trust people.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by mindslight on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @01:36PM (#19381231)
Your comment treads close to the pitfalls of this regressive framework of "privilege".

The default state of nature is open-world. It would be nonsensical for parents to not provide for their children. At what age should parents leave babies outside to fend for themselves? When someone passes away, should their dwelling be bulldozed? These sound nonsensical, precisely because our implicit motive is to build things for subsequent generations. We have gotten to our present state due to the hard work and planning of past generations - "A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." and all that.

The "rigged" bit you're referring to is that society itself operates on a closed-world paradigm based around positional goods. The winners of this zero sum game gatekeep their position, extracting work from the losers. Setting up a general race to the bottom will not affect those winning this game, for they will always find a way to mitigate any "corrective" action and keep themselves on top. But buying into the paradigm actually makes it harder for those not on top to escape it!

You should appreciate the advantages you were given, but not view them as some sort of baggage or original sin. I guarantee you the people above you certainly won't.

And as far as general reform, focusing on general "wealth" is simplistic dead-end idea. One must always be looking for ways to make specific facets of society open-world. eg focus on increasing access to education in general and ousting credentialism, not simply trying to make the beneficiaries of the status quo less predictable.

Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by Zigurd on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @02:50PM (#19382120)
While this is axiomatic: "It would be nonsensical for parents to not provide for their children." It is equally true that governments, if they want the best-performing society and economy, should heavily counter-balance the privilege of the children of the wealthy with scholarships, public education, training, tax policy, and anti-discrimination policy.
Re:College Cheating Scandal: An Admissions Officer Speaks Out by Kaiyou on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:43AM (#19379776)
Keeping your wealth is what's good about our society. It makes us want to work hard to pass our wealth on to our children. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

There's also nothing preventing you from creating wealth.

Like laws, forcing you to redistribute the wealth you created to people that didn't. Other than taxes, anyway.