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Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by aladoc99 on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @09:47AM (#19199235)
Any patient who tells me they've got to have my private number will be told that they've got to get a different doctor. It is vitally important for me to be able to disconnect from patients and their potentially bottomless well of need in order to maintain sanity.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by shakna on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:01AM (#19199345)
Looking over the article, and guessing, here.

This isn't likely to be a what a phone appointment is.

A phone appointment is what it sounds like. A set time, generally within normal office hours, pre-arranged, for the doctor and patient to speak.

It's simply a way of not taxing the patient with travel, especially if they need to travel any significant distance like to the next town.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by _dark_matter_ on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:33AM (#19199597)
The parent comment was reading from a different line: `I made lists of questions for my doctors and insisted they give me their personal phone numbers.`
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by naner on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:32AM (#19199588)
That is a pretty big leap from just a single statement.

I've noticed the same problem and I'm not in the medical profession. Many people don't have good judgement when given direct 24/7 phone access.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by Bartweiss on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:19AM (#19200010)
I'm curious how this varies by speciality.

It's pretty obvious why you'd want this space. Constant on-call status is rough enough for technical roles, I can't imagine how much higher the burden would be when people's health is at stake and 'false alarms' are human fears instead of automated notices. Long hours and high emotional burdens scream for boundaries. But... I've also seen doctors who seem to consider this standard practice. Not that they're obliged to respond immediately, but they even offer phone numbers unprompted. (I hope for their sake they have a different number for those calls.)

What stands out to me is that this article is about Crohn's, a probably lifelong condition for which a doctor might see a huge number of patients. The doctors I've seen giving out personal phone numbers are oncologists and similar, who see people for long but finite stretches and have relatively low patient counts. (And, of course, are dealing with a disease where "is this serious?" is not-uncommonly met with "go to the ER immediately".)

I'm not sure what your specialty is, but I'd be really interested to know whether this is just a per-doctor preference or has broad patterns between fields.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by homero on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @09:58AM (#19199317)
I try not to bother my doctors for this reason. I'm the opposite.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by trapezoidion on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:07AM (#19199897)
I think everyone should avoid interacting with doctors unless it's absolutely necessary (in the US). They have to diagnose hundreds or thousands of patients, and it's unreasonable to expect them to care or deliberate about your specific needs. They are running or working under a business, and are incentivized to minimize patient time and maximize billing. Even a phone call to their office can be converted into an insurance claims if you're asking them to correct a mistake, which I found out when I looked at my health insurance online. This also means that you should always be skeptical if doctor recommends a certain procedure, especially if he's involved. You have to assume he's acting in his or his employer's best interest under our current model of health care.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by jrochkind1 on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @03:34PM (#19202520)
How could I know if it's "absolutely necessary" without being a medical professional or consulting one?

What a terrible system we've got.

[dead]
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by UnpossibleJim on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:16AM (#19199469)
Service to others doesn't mean lackey to all. Boundaries have to be set for sanity's sake, for both patients and doctors. There are emergency lines if the situation is truly dire, and this is coming from someone who is both a brittle diabetic and an epileptic.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by wolco on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @02:55PM (#19211390)
As a developer I wouldn't give out my home number but I would be coding away from work. I got into programming because I liked it.

Do people get into medicine for the same reason? Do they go home and continue practising medicine?

[dead]
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by scarmig on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:04AM (#19199369)
Doctors who don't set boundaries and who perform an unlimited amount of emotional labor are those who burn out.

There's no medical reason for a doctor to be on-call 24/7/365, and it's stupid to expect them to. If an urgent medical issue comes up at 2 AM, the patient can go to the ER, which is what the doctor would tell them to do anyway.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by rkangel on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:10AM (#19199922)
I really want to agree, but there are some situations where it does need to be that one doctor. The below anecdote notwithstanding, I do agree that any patient who demands your personal number is the last patient you should be giving it to.

My aunt had a condition that causes fluid build up in her brain. She has a slightly unusual shunt arrangement, and over Christmas (we now know) it got blocked up. She started developing neurological symptoms, and the only person who knew enough about her treatment to be able to sort it out was her doctor.

The actually had his home landline number, but he was away, and it was only due to luck of a call coinciding with the neighbour feeding the cat that they were able to get the number of where he was for Christmas. By that point, my aunt with unconscious in hospital, and might well have died if treatment had been delayed any more.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by scarmig on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @12:15PM (#19200637)
Thanks for sharing that story.

It's scary that sheer happenstance saved your aunt's life. I wonder how medical record keeping could be improved to help with that scenario.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by rkangel on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @12:32PM (#19200849)
What's scary to me is that after 10 attempts at the landline over a period of time, I would have (correctly but unhelpfully) concluded that he was away for Christmas and abandoned that approach. My Uncle was more persistent.

In this case I think it was less knowledge of the particular case, and more the expertise in that specialised situation. Skillset rather than records.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by scarmig on Thursday February 21, 2019 @01:52AM (#19215067)
Well, here's to hoping we'll all be seeing an all-knowing Dr. Google in 50 years.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by astura on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:51AM (#19199744)
A lot of offices and insurance companies have a nurse's hotline available in the off hours too to handle these sorts of requests. Though I'm not really sure what kind of advice they can offer other than "go to the ER."
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by nate_meurer on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:16AM (#19199974)
Yes. My father-in-law's staff relay a high proportion of calls to him. The staff triage the requests, answer questions when they can, and forward questions they can't. The staff know how to use the doctors' time wisely. They ask the right questions, provide updates, no chit chat. It has to be that way.

There are a few special patients he'll give his cell number to. Pregnant moms especially I think. He's a country doc and the only good baby doctor within a hundred miles, so if there's an OB patient who he thinks is higher risk, and who he knows won't abuse his cell number, he'll give it to them no problem.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by iguy on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:07AM (#19199402)
Maybe the patients to whom they offer their private numbers, and the patients who "tell me they've got to have my private number" are non-overlapping sets.

I'm sure that experienced doctors can spot people who are going to ruin every weekend a mile away, and also those responsible enough to call only when it really is appropriate.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by nate_meurer on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:29AM (#19199572)
> The worst have been preachy, god-complex douchebags.

Is this sideways dig really necessary? I could say the same about programmers (and I am one).

I count half a dozen doctors and nurses among my inlaws. None of them will give their personal phone numbers out to patients. If a patient asks, they're politely told to call the office, who will then curate the calls.

If you've ever been around a doctor, especially a GP, you know how many calls they get. My father-in-law takes dozens of calls a day from his office, several of which come at night when he's asleep. If he were expected to take calls directly from patients, he'd be completely unable to do his job.

So, serious question for you jachee: is it possible that the doctor you're responding to has some insight into the challenges of his job that you don't?

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by jachee on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:26AM (#19200070)
It's indeed possible that there's insight there, but with phrasing like "bottomless well of need" there's also an obvious disdain for humanity which seems likely due to having never been seriously ill, scared or suffering. Having several close acquaintances, including my wife, who deal with chronic illness it set off red flags of "only in it for the money" insight or not.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by nate_meurer on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:51AM (#19200344)
I've heard the phrase "bottomless well of need" -- exactly that phrase --from more than one of my family members in the medical profession, all of whom are caring to the point of self-sacrifice. It's a vivid, pointed, and completely accurate description of a significant minority of patients who present a real challenge to doctors and nurses.

My brother-in-law is an ER doc. He treats an alarmingly high number of patients who threaten to sue him if he's not willing to give them his phone number, write an immediate referral, or prescribe opioids. These are patients with real pain, real problems, who are understandably desperate for relief, and who are easily capable of completely dominating a doctor's time and attention.

The implication of an obvious disdain for humanity here is pretty uncharitable. Just as it's difficult to relate to chronic disease from the outside, I think it's difficult to relate to the challenges of treating and caring for the afflicted.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by loco5niner on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:45AM (#19200276)
> with phrasing like "bottomless well of need" there's also an obvious disdain for humanity

I think you are wrong to make that assumption.

There are tons of people with no sense of boundaries who will make contact over and over for very little reason. It only takes one or two of those people to ruin it for the rest of us.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by Nomentatus on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:50AM (#19200336)
Chronic illness demographics - particularly for diseases of inflammation - have exploded in the last fifty years, outpacing the supply of doctors and then some. The need is now bottomless, and it is in fact a need.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by m_fayer on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:29AM (#19199570)
My clients, as a whole, are a bottomless well of various IT needs. This is by design.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by PakG1 on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:40AM (#19199660)
Some call it job security. Fortunately, most of those users call only during their office hours. Can't say patients would have office hours, so it's more complicated.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by homero on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @09:59AM (#19199324)
One patient with health anxiety will call daily, multiply that by any number. Then add family members.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by normal_man on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:30AM (#19199574)
I mean, a "bottomless well of need" is basically exactly what a chronic illness is. Have some compassion; doctors and medical professionals deserve to clock out at some point just like the rest of us. It doesn't mean they are in the wrong profession.
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by unclebucknasty on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:37AM (#19199632)
>patients and their potentially bottomless well of need

That's worded with a tinge of contempt. Not saying it's undeserved--I've never walked in your shoes, and I can imagine the medical profession being exhausting and one of high-burnout.

But, it does make me think of how things have changed in this regard, for both doctors and patients. Time was that doctors made house calls, knew every patient personally, and frequently cared for multiple-generations of a family. There seemed to be a certain intimacy baked into the profession. Of course, that's pretty much impossible today with insurance, medical costs, etc. making medical practices more of a numbers game.

On the other end, patients are consumers like any other. And, after running a consumer-facing business for many years, I can say that there seems to be an unreasonably high-expectation of service and outright deference to the customer--sometimes bordering on a sort of pathological entitlement.

The result is that there seems to be a lot of hostility baked into transactions and other professional interactions. Given the personal nature of one's health, I can only imagine this to be amplified.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by seszett on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:58AM (#19199806)
> Time was that doctors made house calls, knew every patient personally, and frequently cared for multiple-generations of a family

They (some) still do. But they have to have their patients' numbers, not the other way round, if they want to have a life of their own.

Some people can devote the totality of their life to patients, and it's a good thing if the article author could find some of them I guess, but most doctors also have a family and their own needs, which is extremely difficult if your patients can call you whenever they want.

Doctor or not, you don't want to risk receiving constant calls from a few particularly difficult patients at any time of the day or night while you're trying to lead a life with a husband/wife and kids. And that's not even taking into account the potential for abuse from other (or the same) patients who will find there a method to bypass appointments and to avoid paid consultations.

On the other hand, email works very well for "push requests" from patients, and is a lot less disruptive for the doctor.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by loteck on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:45AM (#19199693)
Time was that doctors made house calls, knew every patient personally, and frequently cared for multiple-generations of a family.

Time was also that doctors had very few treatment options for a vast array of maladies that afflicted their patients. Now we use high technology to try to win every fight. Bedside manner is nice, but it won't stave off lymphoma.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by coldtea on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @10:45AM (#19199698)
That happens when communities and communal links break down into mere sellers and buyers...
Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by saiya-jin on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:40AM (#19200231)
Imagine you have 7 minutes for a patient, and off to the next one. Imagine 90-95% of your work time is spent in front of computer, filling in forms for every patient coming in, getting any treatment or leaving hospital. Each one takes 60-90 minutes (no kidding). My fiancee's daily/nightly routine, every single day, in biggest hospital in Switzerland.

Our romantic views on what it is to be a doctor are long gone, unless you go with orgs like MSF to ie Africa. Reality is, most of doctor's work these days is pure bureaucracy (maybe apart from surgeons). Any job that gets into this 'corporate work' state will have any positive energy drained out of it.

Do you know any doctors personally? Most of them end up pretty disappointed bitter with their work right after school - those rosy expectations meet reality. In fact, in our circle of friends where there are many young doctors, there is 0 happy with their work.

Re:Things I Wish I’d Known Before My Chronic Illness by unclebucknasty on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:44AM (#19200269)
Yeah, I know. That's pretty much what I said.