A bank without redundancy is the best place to have your mortgage. Just hope that one day they forget about your debt.

More likely they will forget you paid them.

Always keep your receipts.

Real talk...they own my mortgage, i cant just 'forget about it' if they forget about it. I want to refinance it. Of they lose all data on my debt like that ending to Fight Club... is the debt just...gone?

Nope. Liens are recorded with the county/state as part of property law, as well as any other encumbrances. So that would actually probably make your situation worse because the lien holder would have no clue about the debt and claim on the property and could be hell for you to remove even if you kept paying and eventually paid everything off. Could potentially be a nightmarish scenario and an exercise in pure bureaucracy. Probably some Brazil or Catch-22 style shit.

That was an issue during the housing crash. Banks were forclosing left and right on houses that were fully paid. It was a mess.

Pro tip: if you’re ever in that situation, demand the bank produce the deed proving ownership to a court of law.

As a Brazilian who banks at Wells Fargo thinking about a mortgage, this thread isn't very encouraging

He's referring to the film, but I appreciate the effect of the double entendre.

I'm relatively certain that it is on the lien holder to prove that you owe them money; otherwise, you could just re-file to have the lien removed.

Nice

This is why I like the Canadian system of mortgages.

I have a 30 year mortgage, but every 5 years I have to "renew" it. At that time, I have to renegotiate the rate for the next 5 years. As part of this negotiation, I can just switch banks if I want. Or to a private lender. Or to anyone really.

It seems weird to me that you are beholden to an entity you've never signed any contract with.

This is not always a good thing. Inability to lock in a reasonable fixed rate for a 15, 20 or 25 year term in Canada meant that in the early 1980s, for example, when benchmark interest rates were 15%+, people whose 5 year terms came up for renewal had no choice but to renew at 17% interest rates. Ask an older person from AB who lived through the first oil economy bust in Edmonton or Calgary.

Is there something to prevent the rate from skyrocketing when you renew the mortgage? Doesn't this have all the issues people occasionally have with ARMs?

Nope. Rates are based off a prime lending rate which is equal amongst all the big banks. But like they said, you are free to shop around.

Credit unions usually have good offers.

Ideally you’re not buying a home that you can’t afford if rates go up too much.

That assumes there is some sane upper bound on rates, but they can fluctuate quite a lot depending on how the economy is doing (7% doesn't seem like too much of a stretch). I agree that you should not buy a house near your carrying capacity, but I also posit that if you start out 7% lower that it will hurt your standard of living more than you expect.

There isn't really an upper bound, but the prime rate doesn't move much. As another comment said, competition between different lenders keeps the rates in check.

Typically the Bank of Canada sets their prime rate, some time later the big banks set their own prime rates based on that, then the mortgage rates are set based on that. The Bank of Canada prime rate only moves by .25% or .5% at a time.

If you have a variable rate mortgage and the rates change, they will be immediately reflected your mortgage. This isn't as bad as it sounds - your payment will stay the same, the rate change just affects how much goes to interest vs principal. The mortgage documents will include the 'trigger rate' which is how high interest rates need to get before your payments no longer cover the interest. This is the point where you're in trouble.

For some variable rate loans, like an auto loan, an increasing rate just means that the term of the loan gets longer or shorter.

As always, ask questions. The bank, in Canada at least, doesn't really want you to default on the loan. Ask about the trigger rate, ask what happens if it gets hit, ask what happens if rates go up but don't hit the trigger rate, ask about lump sum payments.

The UK typically uses the same system of fixed rates for (usually) 2-10 years.

Story time: several years ago I took out a 10 year fixed rate of 2.99%. My thinking was that since the base rate couldn't really go down any further, I was locking in a good rate.

As it's turned out, so far I could have had a series of 2 year fixed at around 2%, so this was potentially the wrong move, although the maximum downside was limited.

My parents on the other hand took out a 12.99% fix in the early 90's, which turned out to be incredibly unlucky given the unprecedented low inflation of the nineties and noughties.

Assuming Canada is like the UK, competition in the mortgage market means a bank hiking the rates will lose your business. Of course you can be unlucky if interest rates are unusually high at the time your fixed rate deal is up for renewal.

Contact you entered into was "assignable"

Refi that bad-boy to your local credit union

Can't. It's a fixed 30 year mortgage at a 3.375% rate. Refinancing it will increase that by at least a point. Plus, I originally did get the loan through a local credit union, who then sold it to a consolidator who sold it to a big national bank (which happened to be Wells Fargo). Local credit unions generally don't hold onto mortgages. They don't have the economies of scale to service them efficiently.

My 'local' credit union does. They dont sell mortgages/loans to anyone and keep them 100% in house. Its why even after moving to Germany I keep that bank for US assets. They just dont seem as criminally motivated as other banks.

What is the name of this credit union?

It doesn't work that way. Mortgages get resold between banks all the time. You can walk into your local bank and get a house loan, and five months from now you'll get a business envelope from Wells Fargo informing you that you should send your checks to them now.

I would expect if WF decided your first loan met their purchasing criteria, your refinance would get the same treatment.

I moved loans to First Tech Federal Credit Union, which used to (and still probably do) state in the loan contract that they will service the loan for its life. Very happy with them so far.

That's good language to look for. I didn't check closely enough and my mortgage documents stated that the loan issuer (my bank) would service the loan, but without any guarantee of how long. They sold the loan shortly after issuing the mortgage.

As edoceo says below, I recommend refinancing with a credit union of your choice, preferably one that will pledge in writing to service the loan for its life.

Rates have gone up since, unfortunately. I'd be paying thousands in refi fees for the privilege of paying more each month in interest. No thanks.

If you care that much, you can refinance.