It is more rare for a single household to have two extremely high paid professionals, so a single income of 350-500k is not 2x of 1% income. It is in the 1% (~420-450k household or so).
Also 350-500k sounds about the right range for senior-ish at top large tech company as a software engineer.
Edit to add:
> Also 350-500k sounds about the right range for senior-ish at top large tech company as a software engineer.
Senior"-ish," implying some not-so-senior folks are making $350-500k a year is absolutely ridiculous. But even barring that, I know HN is home to many, many highly paid folks at large technical companies in SV making boatloads of money.
Most software dev jobs in the country top out in the $150-200k mark for non-managerial, senior high-level architectural type jobs. Very good senior devs in my area are $110-135. I've never personally seen a salary or heard someone claim they made anything higher than $185. Surely they exist but they're well above-market or have extremely specialized skills that make it borderline impossible to get any sort of "market rate" for.
> A salary of $185,000 in Boise, Idaho should increase to $450,797 in San Jose, California
https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/boise-id/san-jose-...
Total comp in the $200-300k range is common for seniors at tech companies in SV. But people tend to not understand exactly what that amount of money means here because it seems like so much money. It doesn't mean people in, say, Boise are underpaid or whatever, just that everything is way, way more expensive in the Bay Area.
Who is better able to afford to put his kids through college, go skiing every year in the Swiss Alps, buy a Ferrari, or retire in luxury in Florida--a guy who spent his career making $185,000 in Boise or making $450,000 in San Jose?
More money is still more money, the cost of housing notwithstanding.
However, I feel like you're are underestimating "some personal services". I don't have the time cook all my meals, I need to commute to get affordable housing, and I don't plan on just hanging out in the park everyday. So alas I find myself paying:
$15 for a simple saled
$11 roundtrip commute on caltrain
$100 for nosebleed seats to a band that was barely even considered famous during their heyday
These things really add up quick, and if you're not constantly careful about budgeting, you'll find yourself with less money than your counterpart in Boise.
Americans and their ridiculous concept of what middle-class is, hilarious. You're rich, own it.
You are right that someone with 450k gross should be able to comfortably handle this. It is different story for the majority that make 250k or less.
Most everything is indeed more expensive. Electricity, for example is nearly twice as expensive. I just looked up gas and Costco vs Costco is $.80/gal more. Insurance is more. Property tax rates are about the same but since the value of properties is so much higher you pay a lot more in real dollars. And since the basics are more expensive, everyone’s rates go up because they have to buy the basics too.
Think of average senior engineer Bob with a 10 year career, now working at mediocre tech company Xyz in Sunnyvale. There’s no way on Earth he’s making $300k.
Hot shot ML expert Alice working at Facebook? Sure!
How many more Bobs are there than Alices? 10x? 20x?
Median(?avg?) senior comp at Google is apparently 350k, 370k at Facebook.
That is reasonable for large top tech company, which was the original statement.
The original statement I made was 350-500 is about in line with senior-ish at top large tech companies.
The levels immediately below senior brush against that boundary (I made 350k one year when the stars aligned, and wasn't senior), and the levels immediately above are averaging at the very top of that limit.
If you disagree with the data, that's fine.
Edit: dropping random extra prepositions
In particular because more comp comes from stock, it's extremely sensitive to a market downturn.
Sources: -DQYDJ (https://dqydj.com/who-are-the-one-percent-united-states/) -CNN (https://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/index.html)
holy hell. I am need to quit my job.
What does any of that have to do with the national discussion above?
S/He replied that it's not what you're doing, it's where you're doing it.
It's why judging on these income bands makes no sense. $300k household income with kids is comfortable but not rich in SV, but you'd be living like royalty in most of the rest of the US.
I’m not familiar with the SF cost of living, but Nerd Wallet says a 2 bedroom apartment is about $4k per month. I figured $7k is more accurate so I’ll assume $96k in rent per year.
$300k is roughly taxed at 75k for an individual with no exemptions and standard deduction. That leaves $225k of actual cash to spend or save.
Ok, so after rent and taxes we’re at about $129k. I see cost of living for food and transportation is higher than Texas, but I bet you also drive less. Does that fancy tech company provide meals once per day or more? I bet they do. So, you have $125k left to spend on food, transportation, bills, entertainment, and invest.
If you invest 20% of your gross income - $60k - you’re still left with $65k to spend on those things. That’s $5400 per month or so. I’d bet that buys a lot of $15 coffees and $30 lunches. Or hookers and cocaine, if that’s what you’re into.
Everything is more expensive. Insurance is more expensive. Gas is more expensive. Movies, ubers, doctors, groceries, sales tax, you name it.
While that leftover $77k isn't exactly hand-to-mouth poor by any stretch, compare it to some other state -- what is a fairly decent middle-class family wage in the Valley is a truly bonkers amount of money almost anywhere else in the US (or world, probably)
If someone’s struggling (EDIT: just comfortable) with $300k I don’t know what to tell ya.
I haven't been to a movie in at least 4 years, so I don't really add things like that into my budgeting. Everything else.. sure, it's more expensive, but some of it is only 30-50% more expensive, and $300k is easily double the salary one would receive in most other states.