News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by ilaksh on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:26AM (#18978921)
Who decides which sites have "real" news and which sites have "fake" news?

A big thing missing from these discussions is the history of propaganda. I think a lot of people who are worried about "fake news" need to research that term.

Propaganda is still very prevalent especially as far as war goes. Do people really think that CNN tells them the real reasons for going to war? They will say whatever the Pentagon tells them. Why? Because no one is going to risk their lives and kill other people for some technical, strategic reason or just as part of a larger military campaign. People risk their lives to fight the "bad guys" who are "evil". They need to believe its a moral cause.

Don't let some giant company (or a small one) dictate what source your information comes from. If I used a Microsoft browser I would uninstall that plugin. Assuming that's an option.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by schnevets on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:15AM (#18979511)
It's all so disappointing because there are straightforward, objective rules that could dismiss a lot of these sites. Inform readers if the site was registered in the last 3 months, or claims to be Colorado-based but has a Bulgarian IP address, or plagiarized a bunch of articles from a different source.

It may not shut down all forms of manipulated information, but it can stymie the flow of procedurally-generated blogs that are triggering so much confusion.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by phjesusthatguy3 on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:43AM (#18979124)
>Who decides which sites have "real" news and which sites have "fake" news?

https://www.newsguardtech.com/about/team/

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by Shivetya on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:59AM (#18979309)
a list of names provides not real context to "who" decides. For the most part people will dismiss them quickly when the outcome does not match their personal views. so both sides will simply find examples to further their beliefs.

for the most part these services are both circle the wagon and circle jerk in nature. circle the wagon because journalist of the same beliefs want to protect each other and circle jerk because their choices will simply be beneficial to those they already agree with. the public as I mentioned before will just dismiss it as more of the same. the internet is good at holding them to account and they don't like it.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by m348e912 on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:54AM (#18979257)
RT ran an interesting peice on NewsGuard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkY9fMK26dE
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by tptacek on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:01AM (#18979335)
Well, not that I love being this glib, but, I guess now I know what the Russian government wants me to think about NewsGuard. Also: because WaPo and NYT have issued corrections about Deripaska stories, they're "repeat offenders" who "publish lies" (their citation: Fox News). Also, according to the chyron, I should be really scared of Islam.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by Bartweiss on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @01:23PM (#18980959)
It's a reasonable criticism of RT, but it's amusing how thoroughly it cuts both ways: we now know what the Russian government wants us to think about NewsGuard, and also what a team of former US government officials want us to think about RT.

That's not to say RT is a usable source, I'm not particularly interested in their coverage here. But I'm also not very interested in hearing what news Michael Hayden wants me to listen to.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by tptacek on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @03:07PM (#18982241)
I don't as much need to care what the US government thinks, because the US government doesn't fund any of its best known media companies. As you can pretty clearly see, most of the US news media market works in opposition to the current US administration.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by dingaling on Thursday January 24, 2019 @05:43AM (#18987515)
It doesn't matter if us.gov funds media or not if third-parties are nudging people to only trust sources acting in the US interest.

Sure they might oppose the sitting President but would they publish something which would undermine stated US diplomatic policy?

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by acqq on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @04:50PM (#18983438)
> Also, according to the chyron, I should be really scared of Islam.

Citation needed. It almost seems that you invented something just as an attempt to demotivate people from taking a look. Normally I don't watch videos, but this time I got curious, and I've seen only "Belgian Imam embroiled in the scandal" in the chyron.

But while checking that, I've found out that the video has some real points:

- Co-founder of the NewsGuard: former columnist of the Wall Street Journal, for which EFF wrote that he "repeatedly gets his facts wrong about the NSA surveillance."

- In Advisory Board: Michael Hayden, former NSA and CIA director, Tom Ridge, former First secretary of Homeland Security, Richard Stengel, former Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by arijun on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:03AM (#18979367)
You should also read the RT pieces on how Crimea liberated itself, and how Putin won every election fair and square
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by amaccuish on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:50AM (#18979894)
> how Putin won every election fair and square

Maybe there was some tampering here and there but I got the impression when I lived there that most people thought he was good and supported him.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by pvg on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @04:00PM (#18982890)
there was some tampering here and there

Systematically and violently suppressing any political opposition is a lot more than 'some tampering here and there'.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by jqt on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @12:29PM (#18980333)
Some people in the west are shocked when they find out people can also be happy when they don't live in liberal democracies, like Russia, China or SK.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by raxxorrax on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:01AM (#18979340)
Since they are a team, they are already destined to fail. A team tends to gravitate to a particular position.

So they will fail not only because nobody uses Edge.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by avn2109 on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:00AM (#18979328)
Does this organization have a published definition of "Fake News?"

I suspect not, because in general, nobody can agree on a definition of it.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by kbenson on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:35AM (#18979726)
Just because the public can't come to a definition, doesn't mean that a small group can't come to consensus about what it is with regard to what they can police. It may not match your definition, but it could be well defined.

That said, I have no idea if they have done so.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by wonthegame on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:29AM (#18979667)
I think people tend to categorize obvious exaggerations as fake news but in reality fake news is much more subtle than that.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by macintux on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @01:33PM (#18981086)
If you look at the criteria they’re using, “fake news” isn’t one of them.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by mtgx on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:57AM (#18979975)
Apparently, "former" NSA agents.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by ilaksh on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @12:50PM (#18980576)
Why do you say that? Is there some evidence? Edit: I see. One of the advisory board is the former director of the NSA.

They also have a political analyst for NBC on their board. So I'm sure they are objective about NBC.

https://www.newsguardtech.com/our-advisory-board/

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by sametmax on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:16AM (#18979526)
Given that microsoft has itself a long history of propaganda, I'm extra suspicious.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by matt4077 on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:45AM (#18979141)
Check the Daily Mail, which apparently runs afoul of this plugin, and compare it to the NYT, or Economist.

If you can‘t immediately spot the difference, you may be a late victim of post-modern relativism.

They also have transparent documentation of their ratings. Example: https://www.newsguardtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/rt....

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by whatshisface on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:54AM (#18979256)
>If you can‘t immediately spot the difference, you may be a late victim of post-modern relativism.

The claim is not that all news is equally true; that would be ridiculous. The claim is that lists of trusted sources are ripe for abuse by the list-makers.

Consider this evil plan: suppose that I put a grassroots issue blog on the same list as 100 fake publications. Everyone will believe me, because, look: I was right one hundred times! That problem can even arise without intentional evil on the part of the list makers, just look at the history of spam blacklists. People, even teams of people, are not one hundred percent just one hundred percent of the time.

(I just called something evil, and you can't get any less postmodernist than that! ;)

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by Bartweiss on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @01:43PM (#18981207)
> suppose that I put a grassroots issue blog on the same list as 100 fake publications

Worth noting that PropOrNot already exists, and got a lot of positive coverage before people started to get suspicious. Its model was almost precisely what you describe: providing extensive lists of clearly Russia-affiliated sources like Sputnik News, then including a handful of high-quality domestic gadflies like Naked Capitalism without any justification.

This isn't just a hypothetical risk of such tools, its already an active problem on these exact topics.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by ilaksh on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:52AM (#18979220)
The problem is if you don't have Russian propaganda then there is nothing to counteract the American propaganda.

Unfortunately most people in the US are not going to be able to believe that American propaganda exists.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by pjc50 on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:53AM (#18979927)
Two falsehoods do not make a truth.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by the_rosentotter on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @12:12PM (#18980151)
It's good to know both sides of the story.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by arethuza on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:52AM (#18979215)
The problem with that approach is that even the Daily Mail occasionally publishes something decent - e.g. this article on Clement Attlee:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3174009/DOMINIC-S...

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by RankingMember on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @11:01AM (#18979339)
If a clock's broken and thus is right only twice a day, is it a clock worth keeping? The Daily Mail made its bed and it should have to lie in it.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by nailer on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @02:14PM (#18981590)
Sure, but every other major news source has also published something verifiably false. Pick your poison.
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by RankingMember on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @03:24PM (#18982463)
How about this metaphor: There are two burger joints. One consistently gets poor health code reviews, vermin in the preparation areas/mouse feces on the cutting board, etc. while another has a mostly clean rap sheet, only marred by a "missing a hair net" violation once every few years. Which one do you go to? Certainly they're not equivalent, right?
Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by isostatic on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @02:57PM (#18982109)
So two sources One is 95% truth, 5% they get wrong and apologise One is 95% lies, and 5% they get it right

Which do you read?

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by nailer on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @03:19PM (#18982394)
It depends on the impact of the lies. The Guardian's Mark Duggan headline was the subject of a PCC complaint awarded against them, see https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/feb/23/pcc-guardian-m... This could have easily led to more violence. This week The Washington Post recently published the false narrative against a 16 year old boy approached by a native man at a protest (saying that he'd approached and threatened the man), resulting in thousands of violent threats against a child.

'Proper' journalism doesn't exist. Maybe it never did, it's just more obvious now. It's news entertainment.

Re:Microsoft's mobile Edge browser begins issuing fake news ... by RankingMember on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:59AM (#18979316)
Thorough documentation like that is key to a plugin like this maintaining trustworthiness. I think they should go even further and provide explicit examples highlighting the reasons behind a certain rating, as the more explicit, the harder for people to dismiss this as some kind of leftist filter.