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Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by ceejayoz on Sunday January 13, 2019 @09:30PM (#18900169)
I had the same experience with the first book, and never proceeded further. I kinda wonder if it's a translation/cultural issue - the characters' decision making processes and the ways things were described felt very foreign to me.
Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by chii on Sunday January 13, 2019 @11:20PM (#18900611)
> characters' decision making processes and the ways things were described felt very foreign to me.

the book isn't a dramatic book - it doesn't follow a hero's journey or the typical greek style storytelling trope. It's more like a description of what happened. But i like that - the sci-fi elements described a pretty fantastical, concepts are fresh and original (however you can argue that it has been done before?!).

I feel that the book is bifurcated amongst readers who read for literary quality vs conceptual quality.

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by TeMPOraL on Monday January 14, 2019 @02:31AM (#18901320)
> I feel that the book is bifurcated amongst readers who read for literary quality vs conceptual quality.

Yup. I'm strongly in the latter camp (as I'm fond of saying, if I wanted to read character development, I'd pick up literally any other genre - everything nowadays is about people and their emotional dramas; I like my sci-fi when it's about ideas). The whole Trilogy is pretty dense in concepts, including some insanely beautiful ideas, while also not venturing too far outside established science. I liked in particular how thinking of various... factions (to not spoiler too much) is built around lack of FTL in the books' universe.

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by ethbro on Monday January 14, 2019 @08:05AM (#18902639)
Curious, have you read Asimov? Specifically Foundation?
Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by TeMPOraL on Monday January 14, 2019 @08:29AM (#18902761)
Not yet. I've been meaning to, and recently my wife bought me hardcover Foundation books for my birthday; it's my next fiction to read after I finish the newest Safehold book!
Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by mercutio2 on Monday January 14, 2019 @10:29AM (#18903655)
Funny. I can look down my nose at David Weber’s wooden and cringeworthy characters and dialog, but at the end of the day, I lapped up every Safehold book.

I don’t need my sci-fi to be literature, but I need the story to move every ten or twenty pages, or characters I care about. Character development is an alternative to plot development, basically, but to go along side your interesting science bits, you have to give me at least one of:

A) short

B) characters who I care at least slightly about

C) a plot that moves faster than your average snail

The Three Body Problem had none of the above. Although the last 40 or so pages was at least a perfectly good short story in its own right.

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by TeMPOraL on Monday January 14, 2019 @10:57AM (#18903904)
Ironically, while I always react to new Safehold books like children to candies, I find them to be overly long and spending too much time on introducing (and then killing off) characters whose names I won't remember by the end of the chapter - and it's something I don't remember feeling about 3BP. Then again, Uplift saga felt sluggish to me too at times. However, in all of those cases, the plot is good enough for me to like it. I guess I can bear overly long stories if they're still interesting stories.

EDIT:

> I can look down my nose at David Weber’s wooden and cringeworthy characters and dialog

"Truer words have never been spoken." ;).

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by mercutio2 on Monday January 14, 2019 @11:20AM (#18904092)
Re: Safehold:

I mostly skip the soldier narratives after the first few books taught me they were all going to become either red-shirts or over the top permanent sycophants within 10 pages.

But man, Safehold has far and away the best set up for “what if I knew everything about the history of militaries and military technology and wanted to conquer the world circa 1200 A.D. with it” I’ve ever seen. So satisfying ;)

I’ve actually recommended people who can’t abide military sci-fi or David Weber in general just read the first 50 pages of the first book.

Surprisingly many of these people go on to read the whole series.

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by ethbro on Monday January 14, 2019 @10:58AM (#18903919)
That's a good a three prong test as I've ever heard for sci-fi!

I've never been able to explain as succinctly how I can enjoy both Asimov and Bacigalupi.

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by ethbro on Monday January 14, 2019 @08:34AM (#18902792)
I'm guessing you'll enjoy it, from you preferences!

The Asimovian characters-as-plot-revealers isn't for everyone, but he does an entrancing job.

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by TeMPOraL on Monday January 14, 2019 @08:41AM (#18902835)
Thanks! I'll be sure to remark on it the next time the "your favourite sci-fi" thread pops up on HN :).
Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by sfifs on Sunday January 13, 2019 @11:08PM (#18900566)
Possibly cultural but the Dark Forest (second book) is definitely worth the read whatever your experience with the first book. It is quite remarkable the breadth of the ideas that were explored.
Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by neuronexmachina on Monday January 14, 2019 @12:07AM (#18900814)
Yeah, it's become my currently-preferred explanation for the Fermi Paradox.

https://bigthink.com/scotty-hendricks/the-dark-forest-theory...

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by Haga on Monday January 14, 2019 @06:38AM (#18902288)
My preferred idea is that the great paper clip maker gets bored and eventually gets high on simulations which - irony all turn into paperapoca clips in the end
Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by simonh on Monday January 14, 2019 @06:26AM (#18902235)
My preferred theory at the moment is they all end up getting turned into paperclips.
Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by dmix on Monday January 14, 2019 @12:22AM (#18900866)
> It is quite remarkable the breadth of the ideas that were explored.

For example?

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by TeMPOraL on Monday January 14, 2019 @02:36AM (#18901334)
A solid, game-theoretic explanation for the Fermi paradox based on assumptions of no FTL and technological growth being sudden and rapid, both seemingly applicable to our universe.
Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by ethbro on Monday January 14, 2019 @08:11AM (#18902668)
I couldn't help but read that with historical-political overtones, which in light of 19th century Chinese history and the modern CCP seemed terrifying.

I also took issue with the implicit assumption that two civilizations cooperating would develop no faster than a single civilization. Or, another way, that all civilizations would climb the same technology ladder the same way.

On Earth, historical competition between nation-states has suggested a very different reality.

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by TeMPOraL on Monday January 14, 2019 @08:40AM (#18902826)
> I also took issue with the implicit assumption that two civilizations cooperating would develop no faster than a single civilization.

I don't remember that assumption; I felt the implicit assumption was that development of any civilization can experience unpredictable rapid acceleration, so even if two civilizations cooperated, it doesn't help them much against others out there.

> Or, another way, that all civilizations would climb the same technology ladder the same way.

That I think was explicitly denied in the basic axioms of Dark Forest theory - again, civilization's technological level can jump unpredictably.

> historical competition between nation-states has suggested a very different reality

The core axiom of Dark Forest theory is that lack of FTL makes communication delays be of the same length as periods of possible technological leap-aheads, which makes cooperation unlikely and contact too dangerous. On the scale of our planet, that never applied. Communications between civilizations that knew about each other were on the order of months, and technological developments tended to make that delay shorter.

Dark Forest translated to Earth would be as if I noticed your sail ships, sent you a hello from my steam civilization, only to get preemptively hit by an ICBM you've managed to build in 200 years it took for my message to reach you.

--

Maybe there was more historical politics in this book than I noticed; I'm not well versed on history of China, and thus lack necessary context. I'd love to learn more, if that is so.

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by ethbro on Monday January 14, 2019 @09:06AM (#18902976)
> implicit assumption that two civilizations cooperating would develop no faster than a single civilization

From memory, the basic tenant of dark forest theory was 'In the time it takes to communicate, you could become more powerful than me.'

My point is that if two+ interacting (I don't believe cooperation is strictly necessary) civilizations make technological progress at an exponentially faster rate than a single civilization, then they are highly unlikely to be outclassed.

Furthermore, this provides a disincentive (where 3BP notes none) to wipe out other civilizations, as you're giving up their potential benefits.

> history of China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_China#Qing_dynasty_...

tl;dr - late-Qing+ China (like the Muslim world) goes from a thriving, scientifically leading, expansionist trading society to an isolationist stagnant one, then suffers 200 years of being taken advantage of by foreign powers.

Culminating in both the British and Japanese invading with radically advanced military hardware and imposing their will.

It's hard not to see parallels, but a bit terrifying that the 3BP take-away is 'you should launch a first strike on your enemies the second you can obliterate them without retribution.'

Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by Gatsky on Monday January 14, 2019 @12:23AM (#18900869)
The tone is very different to the British/US science fiction I have read. I think it works well, almost like the whole thing is an official report of what happened, lending it a 'stranger than fiction' quality. Mind you I listened to the audio version which tends to introduce a bit more colour to the characters by virtue of the voice acting.
Re:The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction by flukus on Sunday January 13, 2019 @11:24PM (#18900624)
As others have said, the second book is by far the highlight of the series, although I did like the first, in part because of the cultural differences. I hated the third though, if anyone is struggling with the characters decision making process in the first then they will be completely lost on the third. The whole thing felt like it was trying to cover way too many directions for one book, especially in the last part, even without that I think it was a poor book.

I think the cultural differences wouldn't have been as apparent if they had anglicized names though, I had a hard time tracking the characters, was assigning some of the thoughts to the wrong people and things like that. I struggle with games set in Asia like Shogun Total War for the same reason.