News for hackers. Stuff that matters.

A comment on Apache declares war on Oracle over Java.

Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by makmanalp on Tuesday November 09, 2010 @09:52PM (#1888949)
I just know that Stallman is doing an "I told you so" dance right about now.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by melling on Tuesday November 09, 2010 @10:55PM (#1889074)
Lead, follow or get out of the way. Stallman hasn't offered a better solution than Java. Java is a better choice than C or C++. Developers are simply more productive in Java. Python, Ruby, etc don't currently offer nearly the level of performance. I'm still waiting for the version of Emacs that's written entirely in Scheme.

[edit] Funny, I got voted down. Hope you guys will volunteer to rip out the Java from Open Office and rewrite it in C++.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by hendler on Wednesday November 10, 2010 @01:45AM (#1889438)
I think you were downvoted because you miss the point. Apache's stand is against Oracle, not Java, and Stallman's issues with Java were with licensing not the language/JVM really.

Stallman is a leader not because he must create something better than Java, but instead because for any technology the "Free" vs. "Open Source" issue can be critical as to whether you depend on a piece of software.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by killedbydeath on Wednesday November 10, 2010 @01:53AM (#1889454)
In my experience, a combination of Python and C/C++, Lua/C++, or even just plain C++ with a good library like Qt offer better performance and productivity. And Open Office is not a good example, desktop applications are definitely not Java's strength, there are hardly any examples. Java is more dominant than in the "enterprise"/web space.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by wmf on Tuesday November 09, 2010 @10:56PM (#1889079)
I think RMS is now pro-Java since OpenJDK came out. Harmony is a tool of capitalist oppression anyway.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by melling on Tuesday November 09, 2010 @11:13PM (#1889130)
Stallman has his ideals, which is fine. However, if Java was never open sourced, he would not be in favor of it. OpenOffice was largely written in C++ because they didn't want to use Java because it wasn't open. Imagine how much more work could have been accomplished if they started with Java. Not that Java is a great, or even pretty, language. It's just a lot easier to work with than C++. Someday, we'll be able to move up another level of abstraction and writing software will again become easier.

My point about Stallman was that he would keep developers in the "stone ages" rather than be practical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org#Use_of_Java

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by jbm on Wednesday November 10, 2010 @12:59AM (#1889367)
"Practical"? Is that a good thing now?

I don't recall "practical" being synonymous with "awesome" or "excellent". "Practical" is an excellent excuse for not having principle.

I have some issues with RMS' beliefs, but I applaud the fact that he acts on principle. I wish I had embraced principle over practicality and had continued working with Ruby, rather than taking a 5 year detour through PHPland.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by wmf on Tuesday November 09, 2010 @11:20PM (#1889146)
OpenOffice might not be the best example since it's older than Java: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Open_Office#History
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by eru on Wednesday November 10, 2010 @06:25AM (#1889932)
MIT had an emacs-like editor written in Scheme. (I can't remember its name. Probably it was the editor written for MIT Scheme?)

Edit: It's Edwin.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by uriel on Wednesday November 10, 2010 @07:18AM (#1890027)
Java is the new COBOL, how anyone could think it is a good idea to write anything in it is beyond me.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by ciupicri on Tuesday November 09, 2010 @11:05PM (#1889104)
I wonder what he thinks of .NET and Mono right now.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by warp on Wednesday November 10, 2010 @12:49AM (#1889346)
http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono

(short version: "we should discourage people from writing programs in C#")

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Apache declares war on Oracle over Java by ciupicri on Wednesday November 10, 2010 @09:53AM (#1890448)
That's 3 months old, before these Java related scandals.
[ Parent | on HN ]