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Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by jamesblonde on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @03:13AM (#18854100)
I agree. However, I know the Data Artisans founders personally. There like like 6 or 7 of them, and Prof Volker Merkl (main person behind the original project, Stratosphere). Then, they did two funding rounds. Nobody is coming out with near 10m euro. Half that, before tax, probably after a few years of golden handcuffs. So, my guess is 3m euro after 10+ years. Not bad, but you couldn't buy a good house in the valley or SF for that.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by azag0 on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @03:40AM (#18854198)
For a perspective, 3m euro is about two lifetimes of an average salary in Berlin (north of 2k monthly after taxes)
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by eastendguy on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @03:52AM (#18854231)
Nobody in IT earns only 2K a month in Berlin...
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by shinryuu on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @03:57AM (#18854253)
It's after tax. I earn 2.5k after tax.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @04:36AM (#18854432)
That seems pretty low to me. Can you buy a house in Berlin with that income? It's almost what a dev makes in Romania and there you can buy a decent house with that income.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by expertentipp on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @06:13AM (#18854755)
Buy?! You'll have hard time renting, and money is only part of the issue.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by superpermutat0r on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @11:52AM (#18857010)
That does seem pretty low. I make 500 Euros less and I'm a junior Dev in Croatia, wouldn't move to Germany for that kind of money.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ido on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @11:23AM (#18856703)
It is normal in Germany & even more so in the big cities like Berlin for people to rent their whole lives - there are a lot of tenants protections & rent control here that make that less risky.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @02:37PM (#18858815)
So many people renting their whole lives sounds to me like in Germany most properties are owned by a privileged few and the remaining being forced to be their tennants. Does nobody see anything wrong with that? Rent control laws don't make this OK in my book.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by pantalaimon on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @03:28PM (#18859335)
Well there are indeed many people who call for expropriation now.

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/civey-umfrage-fuer-den-ta...

Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ido on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @04:40AM (#18863542)
If you're asking for my opinion residential real estate should be publicly owned, like hospitals, transport infrastructure, (public) schools/universities, etc.

Or at the very least the land under it should never be sold, only leased from the state.

Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by expertentipp on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @02:38AM (#18863004)
Yes, consolidations on the market are a thing with an additional side effect - as owning a property is professonalized it’s even more difficult and expensive for an individual to own.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by Aeolun on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @06:21AM (#18854784)
In the Netherlands that would be fairly normal too. Comes out to around €4000 per month pre-tax, or €56000 (12m + 2m bonus) per year.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ahartmetz on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @12:16PM (#18857251)
2k net is doable but rare and becoming rarer. I guess the average is around 3k net.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by pantalaimon on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @08:53AM (#18855478)
Well I do…
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @02:32PM (#18858763)
By any chance, do you also happen to be Romanian? :)
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by expertentipp on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @02:40AM (#18863015)
Having talked with some Romanians, software professionals’ salaries in Romania are not far behind average German ones. They wouldn't be the first I would accuse of wage dumping (that would be Ukrainians, Russians, Bangladeshis, and Indians). It’s that everything else in Romania is shit.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @06:50AM (#18864036)
Except the nationalities you listed are not EU while Romanians are. Thre's plenty of things wrong with Romania starting with the corruption, but I wouldn't say everything is shit. Othwewise the local tech hubs wouldn't be full of westerners working here. I also miss the above average wages and the above average women. :) Seeing the wages in Germany vs the property prices makes me feel poor.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by pantalaimon on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @03:22PM (#18859281)
No, German in Berlin.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by jamesblonde on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @01:25PM (#18857971)
Edit: Kostas announced on Twitter that Data Artisans recently also had an undisclosed Series B. So, the founders probably received a bit less that I wrote above. If the founders lost control of the board in the Series B, they may have received a good bit less than I wrote previously.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by locklock on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @03:46AM (#18854217)
You can certainly buy a nice house in Berlin for it though!
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ajaxaddicted on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @04:04AM (#18854283)
Why would someone do that though. You can buy a much nicer house in Spain
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by jamisteven on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @04:17AM (#18854340)
Living in Zurich, and think this very thing daily.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ionised on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @04:20AM (#18854360)
I'd rather live in Germany than Spain.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ajaxaddicted on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @05:05AM (#18854525)
Once you are financially secure, living in Germany makes no sense. Shitty weather, the insane apartment situation in any major city, shitty services(any company with Deutsche in front - Deutsche Bahn, Deutsche Bank, Deutsche Telekom, Deutsche Wohnen), the beurocratic burden in your day to day live - everything takes forever to get done here. Spain is not perfect, but oh my god is Germany overrated
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ionised on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @05:16AM (#18854567)
> Once you are financially secure, living in Germany makes no sense.

How so?

> Shitty weather

To me, constant heat and sunshine is shitty weather. I prefer a temperate/boreal climate. I find it far more pleasant.

> the insane apartment situation in any major city

So just like every other major city currently.

> shitty services

They are going to have to be extraordinarily shitty to be worse than what I have already in the UK.

I've spent enough time in Spain to know I'd never want to live there, and enough in Germany to know that it is very attractive to me.

Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ajaxaddicted on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @05:44AM (#18854656)
> Once you are financially secure, living in Germany makes no sense. > How so?

A personal preference. The quality of life is not high, considering the bureaucratic hurdles you have to overcome on a daily basis - dealing with any Amt/Behörde(agency), Schools, Kindergarten, etc. And on top of that - you get penalized for working hard. There is this Goldschnitt situation(golden edge, breaking point), where the taxes get way too high and makes no sense to work above that level.

> They are going to have to be extraordinarily shitty to be worse than what I have already in the UK.

I spent a couple of years in the UK and the services in Germany are way worse. Banks are better in the UK, transportation is better in the UK, at least in major cities(options where you don't have to rely on your car), doing business is easier and cheaper in the UK. Maybe if we compare the NHS vs the german health system, Germany has a slight advantage, at least when it comes to waiting times.

> the insane apartment situation in any major city

Here again - bureaucracy and the car lobby, which gets in the way of any sort of public transport development/investment. So there is space, but people have to bundle around the well connected spots. For example: East Berlin is vast and empty, no transport connections developed for 30 years - only tram and the occasional buses.

> Shitty weather > To me, constant heat and sunshine is shitty weather. I prefer a temperate/boreal climate. I find it far more pleasant.

It is 50/50 - I would not want to be in Spain in June, July, August and I don't want to be in Germany in January, February, March

Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by hgq on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @06:27AM (#18854810)
What do you dislike so much about Spain?
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by ionised on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @09:00AM (#18855507)
It's not so much an active dislike as it is just not my cup of tea.

I've visited Spain a few times and it's nice in short bursts, but to live there I would have to deal with the weather (not everyone likes hot and sunny, I'd honestly prefer Norway's weather to Spain), the piss-poor developer salaries, the struggling economy, the food that I really am not a fan of, the poor quality of healthcare, the remnants of pro-Franco fascism in their political landscape etc.

It's just not for me. I think I'm more suited to Germanic/Nordic countries for culture.

Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by bogomipz on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:37AM (#18856229)
>"the beurocratic burden in your day to day live"

Could you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely curious what are some of those day to day bureaucratic burdens?

Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by majidazimi on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @01:48PM (#18858240)
Here is an example:

I'm not citizen but working as a dev. I have an old passport which doesn't have bio-metric security features. However, I have a valid residence permit card (it already has bio-metric features). Revolut app which is UK based bank accepts my residence permit in identification process without checking my passport. Just scan it via the app itself and there you go. There is literally no bank in Germany (including N26) that accepts my residence permit card. I constantly have to fight with every company providing any online financial service, because their online video identification process (known as Post-Ident which is run by Deutsche Post) only scans bio-metric passports.

How come? If this thing (residence permit) is a valid ID document, then why is everyone asking for passport? My identity has already been approved by immigration office.

If residence permit is not a valid ID document, then why issue it at first place?

Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by bogomipz on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:00PM (#18861918)
Ouch that is certainly frustrating and more than a little bit silly. Thanks for sharing.
Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by expertentipp on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @06:17AM (#18854765)
> Deutsche Wohnen

lol, as a person who is forced to rent in Berlin, what should one be beware of while dealing with them?

Re:Alibaba acquires Berlin-based data Artisans for $103M by eunos on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @08:15PM (#18870684)
Really sad that you cofounded one of the most utilized stream processing engine and you can just buy a house :/