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Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by allenleein on Monday January 07, 2019 @03:59AM (#18843805)
Summary of the tweets of Steven Sinofsky(1):

1- Pricing not only says who can afford your product but also establishes a brand, determines channel, & more.

2- The first key to having low priced offerings is that you have to have a set of partners who are willing to compete on thin margins in order to bring the product to market.

3- When people say Apple needs a cheaper phone there are many questions to answer beyond the get over yourself luxury brand issue.

4- What is distribution constraint? What partner absorbs some cost to leave margin? What is the branding?

5-Easy question — would a cheap phone be sold and supported in Apple stores side by side? How would the rest of the customers feel about more crowds and tougher appointments competing with people who paid half as much? Sell one phone against another—how?

6- Anyone that thinks Apple is unaware of the challenge and has not sketched out ideas, tested them, and thought about them immensely is crazy.

7- What does all this mean? Apple may or may not have a “pricing” or “price point” or “structural” / secular challenge. For sure just releasing a cheap phone doesn’t make all better.

All takes place in context of lots of cheap/bad competitive phones.

(1): https://mobile.twitter.com/stevesi/status/108117488690147328...

Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by TheOtherHobbes on Monday January 07, 2019 @04:31AM (#18843926)
Considering Sinofsky's record, I wouldn't necessarily consider him a credible authority on this.

There's an obvious difference between "a cheaper phone" and making the range as affordable as it was five years ago - instead of relying on so-called luxury branding while offering very little extra and annoying customers with product issues (missing headphone jack, BatteryGate, etc) and mediocre software updates.

Apple doesn't have an iPhone problem. Apple has an Apple problem.

It's at least possible (who knows for sure...?) that if Jobs were still alive Apple would have opened up at least a couple of innovative new product lines by now - not just gimmicks like Watch, but new "I didn't know I wanted that, but now I see it I obviously do" products, with supporting services and industry partners, all pitched at the affordable-at-a-push level that Apple products originally lived in.

This is where Cook has failed. There's nothing new on the table. Putting up prices is a short-term tactic. So is "a cheap phone".

What Apple needs is a coherent and impressive long-term strategy, and investors aren't seeing that.

Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by BurningFrog on Monday January 07, 2019 @10:11AM (#18845721)
You're saying that Apple needs a Steve Jobs like genius who figures out new world changing product categories and also turns them into real high quality products.

Well of course Apple, and every other company needs that. But hoping for a savior is not a plan.

Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by llampx on Monday January 07, 2019 @05:21AM (#18844116)
I used to love going to the Apple Store and playing with the new iPhones, iPads and Macbooks, especially soon after a new product launch. Maybe its just me getting older but it doesn't have the same appeal anymore.
Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by bluedino on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:25AM (#18844881)
The iPad Pro is worth going to play with in person. But the Mac lineup hasn't been in years. First it was the Air, "Wow, look how small this laptop is. And it's made of aluminum!" Then it became, "Wow! Look at the Retina display! It's amazing!"

Now it's just like, "Why'd they take off the ports on this laptop? It's a weird brown color. And two of the keys don't work, already." To make it worse, everything is the same. You can't tell anything apart? Is this the Air? Wait, it's the old Pro? Which watch is this? Is this the XR or the XS? What's the difference?

Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by shliachtx on Monday January 07, 2019 @09:41AM (#18845433)
I found it interesting that the last time I was in the mall with a friend, we were both more fascinated with the Microsoft store than the Apple store. The Apple store was just bigger, faster, better phones and computers. The Microsoft store had new things. Virtual reality, Surface Hub, Surface Book, etc.
Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by jrnichols on Monday January 07, 2019 @10:05PM (#18852754)
Microsoft clearly took a page out of Apple's book for their stores, but I agree, their retail experience has been enjoyable. I miss the Windows Phone section, though.

Microsoft is sitting on such an amazing ecosystem and it feels like they just don't know how to tie it all together sometimes.

Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by dreamcompiler on Monday January 07, 2019 @09:38AM (#18845409)
Same here. Everything in the Apple Store now seems designed to impress me rather than to help me get work done. Battery life gets shorter, keys and ports get removed, prices get higher. But boy do these things look amazing in the store!
Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by xfitm3 on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:41AM (#18844695)
I avoid apple stores at all costs. It’s crowded, long lines, and always located in a busy area or dense shopping mall.
Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by yoz-y on Monday January 07, 2019 @08:08AM (#18844808)
I share your experience but I think that all of that shows that they are doing something right, having too many customers is hardly a bad problem to have.
Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by avar on Monday January 07, 2019 @04:36AM (#18843944)
Re #5: You can already walk into an Apple store and buy an iPhone that costs 3-4x as much as another iPhone they sell in the same store.
Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by d4rti on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:50AM (#18844728)
And similar for the MacBook (Pro) range. Without customisation: MacBook Air £1,199.00 Macbook Pro £2,699.00

2.25x multiple

With customisation you can easily reach 3x.

Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by tootie on Monday January 07, 2019 @09:14AM (#18845211)
Regarding point 6, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Apple had a viable strategy for a lower-priced phones and Jobs just said "never" and Cook is honoring that. I don't know that they did, just that you can't underestimate the potential for powerful people to be irrational.
Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by dandare on Monday January 07, 2019 @09:40AM (#18845425)
I vaguely remember from Jobs' biography by Isacson that if you are not willing to cannibalize your own market share with a cheaper product someone else will do that for you. I am not 100% if it was Jobs who said that though.
Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by shliachtx on Monday January 07, 2019 @09:43AM (#18845450)
“One of Job's business rules was to never be afraid of cannibalizing yourself. " If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will," he said. So even though an Iphone might cannibalize sales of an IPod, or an IPad might cannibalize sales of a laptop, that did not deter him.”[0]

The idea being pushed is cannibalization by a better product, not lower prices.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/908575-one-of-job-s-busines...

Re:The Phone That’s Failing Apple: iPhone XR by josteink on Monday January 07, 2019 @11:45AM (#18846764)
But for many people the iPhone mini would be a better product than todays iPhone mega.