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Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by saagarjha on Sunday January 06, 2019 @10:52AM (#18838878)
> the client is open source

Uh, no it’s not. The client (which happens to seemingly violate a bunch of open-source licenses) and the code posted to GitHub do not match; occasionally a source dump is posted online but there’s no indication how this relates to what they are shipping, as the released binaries differ and update much more frequently. The author is quite unresponsive about this: https://github.com/overtake/TelegramSwift/issues/163

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by dijit on Sunday January 06, 2019 @11:33AM (#18839068)
Sorry, that's just not true.

I have telegram-desktop (on Linux) which is unofficially distributed and compiled on my laptop via AUR[0], FDroid also has a version of telegram which is compiled from sources and not taken from pkg's released by the Telegram group, although they remove non-free parts apparently[1].

I'm not sure about iOS as I don't currently have the means to verify the content of my App Store iOS installed version of telegram, but the fact is that there are (at least) 2 client implementations commonly used that are compiled from source.

[0]: https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/community.git/tree/trunk/...

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/fdroid/comments/9gmkob/why_is_teleg...

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by saagarjha on Sunday January 06, 2019 @12:38PM (#18839432)
> I'm not sure about iOS as I don't currently have the means to verify the content of my App Store iOS installed version of telegram

I’ll save you the work: Telegram has updated more often that this repository[1] has been committed to, so the code is perpetually out of date, if it ever shipped at all (apparently it doesn’t compile?). The author has mentioned[2] that they will open source their new client once it has been released, but that promise has not been kept.

1: https://github.com/peter-iakovlev/Telegram-iOS

2: https://github.com/peter-iakovlev/TelegramCore/issues/11

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by j16sdiz on Sunday January 06, 2019 @11:47AM (#18839142)
how is it not true?

the version in github works, but the version on play store different a lot from it..

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by dijit on Sunday January 06, 2019 @11:58AM (#18839211)
>and the code posted to GitHub do not match;

Well, I was challenging this assertion.

"Does not match" what thing exactly? My point was that people are using the non-packaged versions (I mean, I'm not FOSS mad, I'm just a user and I'm using the FOSS version almost by accident).

I would prefer the FOSS version to be 1:1 what is in the repo (or, even the upstream of the non-free version), but I see the situation as more chrome/chromium. We're not shitting on chrome for being "the most secure webbrowser" despite having non-free elements.

Seemingly because large US tech companies deserve more respect than a guy who was essentially exiled from his country for not handing over his users data?

Sounds like a double standard. Telegrams OSS edition works, so if they're sneaking things in it would have to be a backdoor, which would be INCREDIBLY damaging to their endeavour if it was found, and it would be relatively trivial to find too. So I'm not sure where this FUD is coming from.

Making the argument about the server not being FOSS is valid though, but then if the E2EE is good enough on the client then the server is basically a relay and can't pilfer anything except metadata. (which, if we're honest, is what governments are after anyway)

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by saagarjha on Sunday January 06, 2019 @12:33PM (#18839402)
> I would prefer the FOSS version to be 1:1 what is in the repo (or, even the upstream of the non-free version), but I see the situation as more chrome/chromium.

Chrome is not GPL.

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by stunt on Sunday January 06, 2019 @12:03PM (#18839239)
You can literally build your own client. Full spec is open source and documented and it works. There are many implementations already.

You can also compile the official client yourself.

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by saagarjha on Sunday January 06, 2019 @12:43PM (#18839453)
> You can literally build your own client.

I mean, I could, but the Telegram developers being so opaque about this doesn’t make me feel like this is a good use of my time.

> There are many implementations already.

As far as I can tell, the only implementations for the platforms I care about are the “official” ones (in the sense that they are placed under some random person’s GitHub account and linked to by the Telegram website).

> You can also compile the official client yourself.

I have never been able to get this to work. Either way, what I compile from the “sources” they have put online and what they are shipping are two different things.

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by dzsekijo on Sunday January 06, 2019 @02:46PM (#18840155)
> As far as I can tell, the only implementations for the platforms I care about are the “official” ones

Telethon (https://github.com/LonamiWebs/Telethon) is a decent up to date (with MTProto) independent clean-room client implementation in the form of a Python lib.

You might consider trying to take care about it.

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by saagarjha on Sunday January 06, 2019 @02:58PM (#18840228)
Hmm, I’ll take a look. I’m still not convinced that I would work on a better client, though.
Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by vnw on Sunday January 06, 2019 @11:36AM (#18839086)
They also have all developers share one single anonymous github account "john-preston". I can't understand the reason.
Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by stunt on Sunday January 06, 2019 @12:06PM (#18839253)
Perhaps it has something to do with:

" The founder of chat app Telegram has publicly claimed that feds pressured the company to weaken its encryption or install a backdoor.

He said, During our team's 1-week visit to the US last year we had two attempts to bribe our devs by US agencies + pressure on me from the FBI. "

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/14/telegram_boss_backd...

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by yogthos on Sunday January 06, 2019 @03:10PM (#18840315)
This is precisely the kind of FUD I'm talking about. The spec is public, there's code in GitHub that you can compile and run a working client. Whether updates are being dropped in a timely fashion or not does not change anything. It's sufficient to verify that the protocol is implemented faithfully.
Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by saagarjha on Sunday January 06, 2019 @04:52PM (#18840958)
> The spec is public

That’s good…

> there's code in GitHub that you can compile and run a working client

No, not really. The code pushed to GitHub doesn’t really compile and the author of the project is quite unhelpful in resolving these issues.

> Whether updates are being dropped in a timely fashion or not does not change anything.

It does: the project is licensed under the GPL, and in a sense “benefits” from having the name of the license associated with their product. But they are not compliant with software licenses, they’re basically source-available maybe possibly if you beg them enough, except also the sources they publish cannot be verified to and likely do not correspond to what they are currently shipping. For a project who’s entire goal should be increasing trust in their product’s security, keeping the development process opaque and violating open source licenses (in addition to their adoption of custom crypto, which I will ignore for this because I cannot comment on it) does not inspire trust at all. Plus it’s just plain annoying.

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by cop_riq90 on Sunday January 06, 2019 @03:28PM (#18840457)
This is not FUD. Telegram HAS NO ENCRYPTION. Telegram stores all messages on the server in plain-text mode. Even whatsapp doesn’t do that.

Which means we must trust Telegram developers to not sell out our data to corrupt law enforcement agencies.

The service is free. Which means they would need to get profitable. Which means they would parse the chats or are already doing it.

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by saagarjha on Sunday January 06, 2019 @04:12PM (#18840741)
> Telegram stores all messages on the server in plain-text mode.

Sorry, do you have source for this claim?

Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by cop_riq90 on Sunday January 06, 2019 @09:11PM (#18842199)
1. All historical messages are always downloaded when you sign in. It is possible to implement this feature without storing messages on the server, but Telegram intentionally decided to use servers. You can verify this by logging out of all your sessions and logging in again. All messages would be downloaded from the server. 2. If you ask if the actual messages on the server are in plain-text, it doesn’t matter. The keys for decryption are in memory. Which means anyone with backdoors or server access can get the messages.
Re:Why Telegram is insecure (2015) by LurkersWillLurk on Sunday January 06, 2019 @11:37PM (#18842785)
This API endpoint will get you all past messages (except for those encrypted by Secret Chats):

https://core.telegram.org/method/messages.getMessages