A common and smart design I've noticed here (Canada), is that at moderately busy pedestrian intersections the walk signal will turn on a couple seconds before the traffic light turns green. This means when people first start walking, all directions have a red light, and then it's also much more obvious to traffic that people are crossing because they're already on the street while the cars are still stopped.

I think on some intersections pressing the button will make this delay longer, but it's hard to tell from casual observation. Also, traffic light timings are set by the municipality, so it can vary by city and depending on the age of the intersection.

The most dangerous intersections I find are on the multi-lane suburban arterial roads. Pedestrians are less common (than in neighborhoods or downtown) so drivers generally aren't watching for them as much. You really have to be careful with cars turning right on a red - even if there's a walk signal - because they're looking to their left for traffic to see if it's clear for them to go, and not for people coming the right about to walk in front of them.

> the walk signal will turn on a couple seconds before the traffic light turns green

But why on earth would you turn the tragic light green while the walk signal is still on? Why not one at a time?

Keep in mind the traffic light system doesn't know if there's a pedestrian actually crossing the road, so my guess would be that it's a compromise between pedestrian safety and traffic efficiency. The longer you have an intersection stopped (especially with no pedestrians actively crossing) the more congestion (and annoyed drivers aka taxpayers) you get.

People don't always press the buttons, and not all intersections even have buttons. Even with a button press, there's no way to tell the difference between a jogger and a group of elderly people using walkers, so you have to assume the longest possible delay.

That said, there is a thing called a pedestrian scramble intersection [1] with a part of the cycle where all the traffic lights go red and all the walk signals turn on, allowing pedestrians to cross even diagonally. This is relatively rare, only being used at some of the busiest pedestrian intersections in some cities.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_scramble

Traffic signals need to get a whole lot smarter. If our cars can figure out how to drive, traffic lights should be able to see people and cars and make things much safer and more efficient.

Plus a traffic light's sensors wouldn't even moving around in the environment, so it's got to be that much easier. And they can be positioned all over an area, on both sides of obstacles. And they can be higher up for a better view.

The downside is that every intersection is different and drawing conclusions from all that information will be harder. And the stakes are higher with a system that directs everybody else.

They're talking about in the same direction.

That doesn’t make any sense - when a pedestrian wants to cross why not give all traffic a full red light? That’s how every traffic light I’ve ever used outside the US works. In the US I’m not even sure what a walk light guarantees a pedestrian?

It guarantees no cross traffic. Turns are still a threat.

I’ve seen the type of light you describe (all pedestrians walk in all directions at once while all cars have a red) in the US but they’re exceedingly rare. In cities there’s always pedestrians and cars waiting in every direction so it would be too slow to be practical.

Away from the lights you have 2 directions to check for traffic from. At an intersection you have to be aware of people coming from 4 directions potentially turning towards you.

Just wait for your turn to cross at the lights? People don’t often just full on run red lights do they?

They may not fully run it, but they often stop in the crosswalk here (GA). I live in a very walkable area and have to be very careful crossing the one major busy street even when they don’t run the light. By the time I’m confident they will actually stop, the light is almost ready to change again.

We have legal right turns on red here. Cars will look left for a gap, and not notice the pedestrian crossing to their right when the light turns green & walk at the same time. Distracted people might not go until the light turns green (no arrow, so they're supposed to yield), and not notice the pedestrian trying to cross when they got the walk symbol. Compounding matters - several drivers don't stop before the crosswalk like they're supposed to, so people in the rightmost lane go even farther into the crosswalk so they can look left for gaps in traffic - often fast enough they don't have time to react to pedestrians.

Cars turning left on green (but no arrow) often won't notice crossing pedestrians they're supposed to yield to either. They may stop, but now they're blocking oncoming traffic (often hazardous), so they're likely to try and clear the intersection if they feel there's enough room. Of course, they're probably also blocking the visibility of the person tailgaiting them, who will also go through the intersection as a result, enough room or not.

All that turning traffic accounts for 3 of the directions you have to check with a valid walk signal (everything but orthogonal traffic coming from the opposite side of the road) - the 4th comes from people running the tail end of red lights, which happens pretty frequently too. Even ignoring illegally short yellow light timings, people will try to squeeze in. Vroom vroom.

If you’re allowed to turn right while lights are red for pedestrians that only means one lane can cross your path if you’re a pedestrian - the lane your sidewalk runs alongside.

In this diagram: https://i.imgur.com/0Smz0Nk.png

Legal right on red is contributing to the behavior of the car driving east and turning south (who hasn't noticed they now have a green light), as well as the the car driving north and turning east (who's LOS is blocked by a truck, SUV, small van with tinted windows, etc. and is pushing that far up so they can see left enough to spot a gap which they can use to turn right on red)

That's crazy. They should just stop everything, full-stop, for pedestrians to cross.

Every red light in this situation has a get-out clause, and no green light can be trusted.

Nearly all intersections in the US are like this.

Note that cars must stop before turning right on a red, so it’s not a total free-for-all. The stopping forces them to yield to pedestrians most of the time.

And to be fair, if these drivers were all properly following the law as written, the problems would be far fewer.

It's not uncommon to have stop lines farther back from the crosswalks for middle lanes to help improve visibility for the right lane - but even the ones that aren't worn down are often ignored by inattentive drivers. You're supposed to fully stop before the crosswalk even when turning right, but many drivers turning right don't fully stop at all - and are at best planning to stop with the crosswalk blocked. You're not supposed to speed up when you see a yellow light. All these things are ticketable offenses, in theory.

Between lax enforcement, lax punishments, lax driver education, and driving while texting, sleepy, high, or just plain drunk... well, I usually don't encounter problems from all 4 directions when crossing a street, but 1 or 2 is pretty common. I feel decently safe crossing, but only because I keep my head on a paranoid swivel. Occasionally I have to kinda hang out in the middle of the crosswalk for a few seconds while I wait for some idiots who failed to yield, and I'll throw up my hands in pantomimed exasperation...

The walk light will often be on at the same time as the green light for drivers going the same direction. Sometimes a turning driver won't notice you. Doesn't happen that often, but happens often enough that you have to be aware of it.

A lot of times it is just easier to cross in the middle of a block because you have a much better buffer area where random cars can't pop out from. Obviously it depends on the particular road. If it is some 6 lane wide main thoroughfare, I'd probably opt for the cross walk.

> The walk light will often be on at the same time as the green light for drivers going the same direction.

Well that’s just bonkers.

Where I live when a pedestrian wants to cross the lights stop all cars for the duration.

Exactly. Turning cars are by far the biggest problem.

Yes, regularly.

I wonder how things would go if many streets had pedestrian crossings were in the middle of blocks and the corners where traffic circles. You couldn't do that everywhere because of buses and truck and other long vehicles. Maybe if you could also drive over the center of them. We have a circle like that here.

They do two things. First, you get right of way (so highest priority). Second, the only cars they do not stop are right turns. As other commenters have mentioned, the point is to improve efficiency, both since cars can turn right once there are no pedestrians, but also since pedestrians can cross for a longer period of time. On the other hand, it can also be annoying for cars, since they often never get a dedicated right turn without pedestrians.

Honestly I think stop lights aren't a big danger for pedestrians. Crossing at intersections with stop signs is far, far worse -- drivers have to pay attention to multiple directions of traffic as well as pedestrians.

At some intersections there can be a button that will give you priority and issue a full stop for all traffic, but those aren't too common.

I am fully convinced that those buttons don’t do anything and are just placebo.

Around here we have a wide variety. Sometimes they do nothing. Sometimes they don't change the main traffic pattern at all, but won't ever display "walk" unless you press them. Sometimes they change the traffic pattern. Sometimes behavior changes at different times of day. Sometimes they're legit broken - at one intersection, a button I used only worked maybe 30% of the time, unless you were holding it down at the exact moment the cycle changed, then it worked 100% of the time.

It completely depends on the city.

Some buttons trigger the “walk” sign but don’t actually change the traffic signals for cars.

Some buttons are placebo, perhaps with a secondary function of emitting a loud tone to let blind people know the walk signal has turned on.

Some buttons trigger the traffic lights to stop.

Some buttons turn the traffic light to a 4 way red light.

I have encountered all these types of buttons on the east coast of the US in various states.

I recently stood at a light for like 15 minutes before I realized a button was available. There was no pedestrian crosswalk scheduled at that light at all. Once pressed traffic in all directions stopped in about 1-2 minutes. It was glorious.

The big problem is "Right Turn On Red" aka "How Dare A Pedestrian Slow Me Down".

We need to get rid of that rule now that the justification for it no longer exists.

> We need to get rid of that rule now that the justification for it no longer exists

What changed that I was unaware of? As far as I know, it still makes traffic flow much more efficient in most situations.

Also, at least where I live, the walk light wouldn't be on at the same time as someone turning right on red that would be going into my path.

> What changed that I was unaware of? As far as I know, it still makes traffic flow much more efficient in most situations.

Right turn on red was mostly implemented to avoid having cars idling waiting for a timer-only light to turn.

Between modern cars with fast engine stop/start and modern sensor technology which triggers lights when there is no opposing traffic, there are a lot of good reasons to remove that rule again.

You would have to add a right turn arrow for your logic to pan out.

>Also, at least where I live, the walk light wouldn't be on at the same time as someone turning right on red that would be going into my path.

What guarantees this exactly? I'm having a hard time seeing how this is possible.

If they are turning right, and my walk light is on, then they already have a green light.

I live in an area with very little pedestrian traffic. Getting rid of right on red would just make traffic worse and add confusion.