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Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by jwr on Thursday December 27, 2018 @12:01AM (#18767443)
I was planning on taking on porting Emacs to the iPad, given that it's a fantastically fast, light and low-power modern portable computer. But reading this gave me pause, I'm not sure I can dedicate as much time to this as it seems will be necessary...
Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by kickingvegas on Thursday December 27, 2018 @01:01AM (#18767707)
If you’re willing to give up local editing, Blink.sh/mosh + tmux + emacs/emacsclient on a remote host has done the job for me.
Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by jwr on Saturday December 29, 2018 @06:47PM (#18786396)
No, Blink does not work for Emacs.

This is a common misunderstanding: a serious Emacs setup will use multiple modifiers (in my case, I need at least Shift, Control, Meta/Alt and Super, preferably also Hyper). My Mac's command key is mapped to Super in my native Emacs. My Emacs as an IDE is basically unusable without the Super modifier. As there is no way to get the additional modifiers through Blink, this is a non-starter. Additionally, the terminal is a bit too slow, and there are a number of other issues (for example, remapping CapsLock to Control kind of works, but there is a small delay, so you get missed keystrokes sometimes).

So, while I use and love Blink, it does not help with Emacs at all.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by sedachv on Tuesday January 01, 2019 @05:15PM (#18802740)
> Meta/Alt

Meta and Alt are two separate modifiers, so if you get a JIS Japanese layout keyboard (QWERTY with extra modifiers), you can have Alt as a separate modifier, at least in X11, which has enough mod bits (mod1 through mod5) to cover everything. Handy for quick input of APL, Greek, etc. Unicode characters.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by vanzorn on Thursday December 27, 2018 @01:30AM (#18767829)
How well does it handle chords? I had a heck of a time covering a lot of my common key combos using a bluetooth keyboard on an iPad pro.

Would love to know if anyone has a good terminal solution for emacs, (ideally kickingvegas' blink.sh/mosh + tmux) ... I returned to XWindows via WSL (Ubuntu 18.04) + VcXsrv for emacs daily use.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by kickingvegas on Thursday December 27, 2018 @01:40AM (#18767870)
Blink.sh has support for swapping caps and control, which goes a long way for the chords I use in emacs. Not all the meta keys are supported if you’re looking for that, but esc is handled fine.
Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by tosh on Thursday December 27, 2018 @03:29AM (#18768287)
I have a similar setup at the moment (without tmux). One thing I noticed w/ mosh was that copy pasting an input from advent of code (a few hundred lines iirc) caused mosh (?) to hang and I had to restart blink. When I tried copy pasting via ssh instead of mosh it worked.

Any idea why this might be (I’d be curious if that was to be expected re how mosh works or whether it might be fixable) and alternatively how I can work around it (instead of fetching the content from a web page via the remote server?).

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by kickingvegas on Thursday December 27, 2018 @03:45AM (#18768331)
Possible workaround: create a new Blink shell and paste clipboard via cat > file. Then scp file to the remote host and import into emacs, if scp works. Another approach is to use iCloud sync to move the file over if the remote has it. Note that pasting via cat > file will not echo your clipboard. Don’t worry, it’s there.
Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by tosh on Thursday December 27, 2018 @04:02AM (#18768398)
ty!
Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by eigenspace on Thursday December 27, 2018 @01:26AM (#18767806)
just use ish[1]. emacs mostly works on it now totally local to the iPad! If there are still things not working I'm sure a couple PRs would be a lot less work than your original plan.

[1] https://github.com/tbodt/ish

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by leoc on Thursday December 27, 2018 @05:47AM (#18768773)
> I was planning on taking on porting Emacs to the iPad

I thought that was impossible anyway, given Apple's prohibitions on both GPL code and software runtimes in iOS apps? However I suppose Emacs could be sideloaded onto jailbroken iPads.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by jwr on Saturday December 29, 2018 @06:48PM (#18786405)
What exactly is impossible?

I can run any software I want on my iPad. No need to jailbreak. Just get Xcode and enjoy the freedom. Who said I need to upload it to the App Store?

(as a side note, these prohibitions seem to have been relaxed in recent years)

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by xte on Thursday December 27, 2018 @05:50AM (#18768788)
I tried Emacs via various hacks on Android... Mostly to have org-mode there... With a touch only UI it's not usable. With a physical keyboard I see ZERO reason to choose such crappy OS instead of a small ultrabook...
Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by Wildgoose on Thursday December 27, 2018 @07:03AM (#18768989)
Check out the Gemini PDA. It's an Android mobile phone with a full keyboard. I have (and can recommend) the first version, but there is a new version in the works right now, the "Cosmo Communicator":

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator#/

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by xte on Thursday December 27, 2018 @08:22AM (#18769268)
Thanks for the link, many try to promise such kind of "portable computer" but always fail so I do not think we will never arrive at such... Also I do not want Android or other crappy OSes, I want a damn real OS, that I can use and manage...

Honestly even if I dream such kind of devices I know rational that I will not really need them: I work/live in fixed place, I do not want to be nomad (well, If being nomad means with a starship around the universe maybe but not in the way I can have now), I do not want to "work from a beach" or on top of a mounting after a good climbing trip. I consider such model as modern slavery vested with a dummy shiny dress...

I'm a person, not a Ford-model human robot that voluntary tie myself to a device controlled by it's vendor.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by bitwize on Thursday December 27, 2018 @08:18AM (#18769247)
Great to see that the dream of the Nokia Internet Tablet lives on.
Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by bitwize on Thursday December 27, 2018 @08:20AM (#18769253)
Emacs on Termux with Hacker's Keyboard is pretty usable. I've written (small amounts of) code with it; for Org note taking it will be fine, if not ideal.
Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by xte on Thursday December 27, 2018 @08:40AM (#18769350)
I tried it and give up, simply I slow to a point of feel frustration and hacker's keyboard is not comfortable for the rest of the phone usage.

Consider that on desktop I live in Emacs, I live with a keyboard (and struggle to find one modern that can really properly replace my ancient Sun type 6 with backlit as a bonus...).

My Android usage is simply:

- GPS when I travel

- mobile quick mail surveillance, not for writing only just to see incoming messages

- make/answer phone calls

- casual SMS usage

- casual reading of grocery list or similar notes (Orgzly)

nothing more. I can't imaging writing a mail, not even code with a touch crappyboard!!!

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by bitwize on Thursday December 27, 2018 @09:38AM (#18769647)
Sounds like you have issues with touch keyboards in general. Understandable. Smartphone UIs are in general fucking terrible compared to the keyboard+mouse interfaces, which is why most people still use PCs to do real work.

I've found that using Hacker's Keyboard conforms my muscle memory and lets me use a touch keyboard faster than I would otherwise be able to. It seems not everybody benefits from this.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by xte on Thursday December 27, 2018 @10:44AM (#18770095)
Well... Hacker's Keyboard do make Termux usable, other keyboard completely fail, so I like it, I prize it but... It's like to say "jump from a mountain naked is really bad, jump with two open umbrellas, dressed with some kind of life-support inflated jacket and trying to fall in a lake instead on rocks is better"...

When you say "most people still use PCs" like PCs was an obsolete thing makes me shiver. For me desktops are the center of our digital life and mobile crap are only an experiment to make anybody slave of few services that's somehow succeed but it's of course doomed to fails like "netbooks" in the past.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by snazz on Thursday December 27, 2018 @02:32PM (#18771870)
As much as I agree with your sentiment that desktop computers are infinitely more useful than mobile devices, the reason that smartphones and tablets have succeeded is because they won over the idiot market (a.k.a. computer novices). There are an awful lot more computer novices/idiots out there than there are people who can appreciate the power of a desktop computer, so market forces make mobile devices dominate. Developers write applications for the users, and since the users are now on mobile devices, we get into a cycle of power where both the users and the applications are on one platform.

Unlike netbooks, which were underpowered laptops released ahead of their time, mobile devices have already hit their critical mass of users. Kids grow up with phones and tablets instead of computers, on average, which makes real computers a much scarier and less interesting proposition.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by xte on Thursday December 27, 2018 @03:02PM (#18772132)
No doubt, but consider a thing: the reason that now nearly anyone have a car does not justify the fact that we still have need for certain kind of cars for "skilled" drivers and work. So while I understand that the masses get a smartdevice I reject the actual trend of abandon desktop, simply because we can't do that without catastrophic consequences.

On education: personally I was taught a bit of unix at first even if my first computer came late (around 13/14 years old) and that's give me in very few time a set of skills I do not see even in many colleagues after years of professional work. Myself I learnt many thing in a very long time simply because I discover them casually and nobody help/taught me anything or nearly anything on them. Long story short: if we have proper school development of certain skills or at least a certain forma mentis/paradigma start to be easy and quick and pay off enormously during the entire rest of the life.

Of course I do not expect a phantasmagorical society formed entirely by PhDs and MDs but I certainly do expect a far different society with benefit for all of its components. The lack of competence and skill we observe these days, coupled with unemployment rates depict a clear scenario about that.

We have less and less competent people, we actually encourage people to be incompetent (like "hey coding at schools to forms legions of code monkeys able perhaps to write a hello world) saying the contrary, we obstacle due to the architecture of the schools, society, companies etc skilled people to express, cultivate and grow their potential and as a results we do not know how to evolve anymore.

We produce more and more crap, we have many companies more and more dependent on few, typically aging "consultants" the few that still know how to work etc.

That's can't last in the medium/long term and recovery is super-difficult and super-long.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by snazz on Thursday December 27, 2018 @04:36PM (#18772826)
You make a really strong point about how our culture emphasizes the wrong values and how many of us are dumbed down by low expectations of competency. I'm interested in seeing what the future will look like when the current smartphone-addicted generation enters the workforce, but I also know a number of thirteen-year-olds who use Linux (some more seriously than others).

Maybe the only thing we can be grateful about is that it takes less to be on top(+)?

+: Of course, I know I'm certainly not on top, especially looking at some of the really impressive Show HNs that I see quite often, but compared to the people who I work with and the people around me in real life it doesn't take as much as you would think to be the best among them.

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by xte on Friday December 28, 2018 @03:14AM (#18775482)
I think you hit the mush. As you I see few talented young people, that thanks to today's web and computing acquire knowledge at a really high rate and are really willing and hungry to learn. But they are fewer and fewer. Also they tend to be skilled in a thing but totally unable to being "generically skilled", I mean: you are a damn smart guys, you discovered in substantial autonomy, without help or friendly environment around GNU/Linux and in few years you are proficient enough to surpass many "professional technician" and you can't even tie your shoes?! I know that we can't be omniscient, we have preference, we focus on something etc, that's ok. But I do not talk about being skilled in anything, only being able to be "smart" in your entire daily life...

I fear this future because while takes less to be on top we do not live to race, with live to live. We are not autonomous, we need society, other expertise and work and that's pose a super-big problem even egoistically for us. Not even counting for our society at a whole and for future generations...

Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by bitwize on Thursday December 27, 2018 @12:03PM (#18770711)
I agree with you. I don't think PCs are obsolete. It just takes more time for the rest of the world to figure out that the much-touted death of the PC isn't happening.
Re:Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) by quotemstr on Thursday December 27, 2018 @04:37PM (#18772832)
I've been meaning to port it to Android too. It's really not that bad. It's a great, easy-to-hack system for porting.