News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by fpoling on Monday December 24, 2018 @02:53PM (#18753929)
SpaceX had to use a fully expendable Falcon for this launch. What makes a GPS satellite so heavy?
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by 5436436347 on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:08PM (#18754001)
Two things:

1. A GPS satellite is in a very high orbit compared to LEO, and so all stages were requested to burn to completion, to ensure the satellite has enough margin to reach that orbit.

2. The second stage ends at a ~800 km orbit, while the satellite itself needs to increase this to ~12,000 km (I'm rounding these numbers). The sat has to carry enough on-board propellant to raise it's orbit that much which necessarily increases it's wet-weight due to the rocket equation.

Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by the8472 on Monday December 24, 2018 @05:06PM (#18754532)
> while the satellite itself needs to increase this to ~12,000 km (I'm rounding these numbers). The sat has to carry enough on-board propellant to raise it's orbit that much which necessarily increases it's wet-weight due to the rocket equation.

Looks like they use a liquid fuel thruster lift it to its final orbit[0]. Some other missions have used ion engines for orbit raising[1]. I wonder why that wasn't incorporated into the GPS design.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_A2100 [1] https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/ses-12.htm

Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by pilsetnieks on Monday December 24, 2018 @06:34PM (#18754894)
Ion engines still need propellant, you might be thinking of the so far unproven EM drive.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by elihu on Monday December 24, 2018 @09:50PM (#18755565)
Ion engines need propellant, but they need a lot less of it to achieve a similar result as a traditional rocket engine.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by fpoling on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:26PM (#18754105)
Still SpaceX routinely recovers the first stage after launching geostationary communication satellites. I thought GPS should be lighter as they are closer to Earth and needs to send much less information in their signal, so the power requirements and size of Solar panels should be lower.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by inamberclad on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:17PM (#18754310)
Looks like GPS-III 3,880 kg at launch. That's fairly hefty, but Falcon 9 has launched other, more massive satellites all the way to GTO (Geostationary Transfer Orbit).

The only information I can find on why this one was so energy intensive has to do with the high inclination the GPS satellite has to be in (55 degrees), which is pretty far off from inclination of the launch pad in Florida.

Wikipedia says this launch was originally planned on a Delta IV. That would make sense because it has higher specific impulse hydrogen engines. The Falcon does well in LEO, but improved Isp really helps as you go farther out.

Here's a video comparing ULA's rockets to SpaceX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoUtgWQk-Y0

Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by marvin on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:46PM (#18754188)
This sattelite was some 8000kgs, vs. 4000-ish kgs for the previous-generation GPS satellites, if I remember correctly.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by Roritharr on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:03PM (#18754259)
Any idea why their weight increased so much?
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by nradov on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:08PM (#18754278)
The latest generation of GPS satellites has more antennas and more powerful transmitters. This improves signal reception and reduces the impact of jamming.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by walrus01 on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:41PM (#18754416)
GPS as received by a small hockey-puck sized antenna is a VERY weak signal, like -140 to -150dB. It only works because the channel size is so narrow and the modulation is very rudimentary. Having a satellite with much larger photovoltaic arrays and really powerful transmitters is one method to overcome regional jamming.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by tgsovlerkhgsel on Monday December 24, 2018 @09:59PM (#18755590)
I wouldn't be surprised if the satellites had additional, classified capabilities.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by InclinedPlane on Monday December 24, 2018 @08:44PM (#18755357)
3. USAF requires the upper stage do a deorbit burn to avoid long lived high altitude space debris.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by bisby on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:12PM (#18754034)
According to the SpaceX stream, it was a combination of satellite weight, high orbit, and inclination change (tilting the orbit)
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by walrus01 on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:27PM (#18754109)
Inclination changes are very "expensive" in terms of delta-V:

https://www.google.com/search?q=plane+change+delta+v&ie=utf-...

Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by fpoling on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:40PM (#18754161)
Interesting. It makes sense then to launch such satellites closer to poles. That explains why there are plans in Norway to build a space launching site at around 70 latitude near Tromsø.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by njarboe on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:01PM (#18754252)
I think it is mostly about the path the rocket is allowed to travel during launch. In the US, for equatorial orbits, one launches from Cape Kennedy to the east, and for polar from Vandenburg to the south. Maybe off angle launches aren't allowed so a lot of correction is needed after the satellite reaches orbit to get to an inclined orbit? I am not an orbital mechanics specialist or space launch planner. Corrective comments are encouraged.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by walrus01 on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:06PM (#18754270)
Vandenberg is mostly used for polar orbit launches because it's a path over the ocean. Not possible to launch eastbound from there because first stages would fall on populated areas. This is also the reason why the Israeli space program launches into rare retrograde orbits (opposite direction of earth's rotation), westbound over the ocean, because they don't want to drop 1st stages on their eastern neighbours.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by njarboe on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:22PM (#18754328)
Correct. But the question is, if one wants an inclined orbit, why can't you launch out of Kennedy to the northeast or out of Vandenberg to the southwest. Wouldn't this save all the delta v correction you need to do after getting into an equatorial or polar orbit and then transitioning to an inclined orbit?
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by khuey on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:32PM (#18754383)
You can do both of those. NRO missions have launched out of Kennedy to the northeast (e.g. NROL-76) and Vandenberg to the southwest (e.g. NROL-25).
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by njarboe on Monday December 24, 2018 @06:29PM (#18754872)
According to bisby at the head of this thread, one of the reasons that SpaceX did not recover the booster is that the rocket had to enter an inclined orbit. Maybe it did launch in the direction for an inclined orbit and used a little extra fuel, like a polar orbit does, due to the fact that you don't have all the speed of the spinning earth adding to your orbital velocity. I didn't know that the spinning Earth speed was a significant factor on payload to orbit of rockets.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by debatem1 on Monday December 24, 2018 @06:19PM (#18754830)
Tromso is also a hub for satellite communications and comms companies, which helps.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by walrus01 on Monday December 24, 2018 @06:59PM (#18754977)
KSAT/Kongsberg satellite services punches well above its weight in terms of how important it is to global LEO and polar/inclined orbit data relay services.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by Ericson2314 on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:18PM (#18754065)
Did they originally intend to use a bigger rocket? It seems unlike them to throw one away at any price.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by gsnedders on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:52PM (#18754212)
SpaceX will happily sell you a single-use Falcon 9 (or Falcon Heavy) if you need the mass for your launch. Of course, one should expect to pay for the privilege.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by Ericson2314 on Wednesday December 26, 2018 @12:05PM (#18763172)
Yeah I'm curious at what price. My guess is it massively contradicts their own PR on expected number of runs and thus their opportunity cost.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by gsnedders on Thursday December 27, 2018 @03:58PM (#18772582)
I expect price-wise they're much closer to the competition there, but given they're still getting launches they can't be completely uncompetitive.

That said, remember they could potentially be using a rocket that's flown twice before (and AFAIK three launches is the most they've done so far), and as such may view the rocket as largely expendable anyway (they lose the ability to use it for re-entry experiments and to pull it down after the launch, but nothing else).

Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by baq on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:49PM (#18754204)
This rocket was worth billions in opportunity dollars. I’m sure not a single tear was shed.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by Ericson2314 on Wednesday December 26, 2018 @12:03PM (#18763163)
Hmm? Is the government paying billions for the launch? I doubt it.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by elihu on Monday December 24, 2018 @09:56PM (#18755583)
Perhaps they used one of their earlier rockets that are only designed to be reused a couple of times.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by wefarrell on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:07PM (#18753997)
They’re in geostationary orbit, which is much higher.
Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by 5436436347 on Monday December 24, 2018 @03:09PM (#18754012)
No GPS sat's are in GEO - they're all in MEO, which is about half as high, though comparative in terms of dV requirement.