Ignoring Turkish folks and Erdogan, the notion that living in a democracy has clear advantages is really propaganda.

I've lived in an absolute monarchy with human rights violations. I can also list a number of democracies with human rights violations, as well as very poor infrastructure, poor economy, violence, etc.

For many in the latter countries, they'll easily trade their democracy to get food, education for kids, and security.

Some democracies do well. Others don't. It's not an indicator of quality of life, and Maslow's hierarchy of needs is largely applicable.

Good point.

I guess I should specify that I was thinking of the "good democracies". I get there can be things people don't like about any of them, but I figured the trade offs between those and totalitarianism was self evident if you lived in one, I guess I was wrong.

>but I figured the trade offs between those and totalitarianism was self evident if you lived in one, I guess I was wrong.

Have you lived in that totalitarianism, though? And are you aware of their perceptions of the shortcomings in your society?

Speaking more broadly, though, how great you think life is under certain circumstances is a function of your model of the world, and thus your ideology (once you get beyond food, shelter and security).

Another aspect I've found: People who come from a country with a lot of "problems" have developed their minds to be relatively tolerant/immune to them. But small issues in the country they move to are large for them, as they've not built mental defenses against them. Don't underestimate this aspect. I recall once when I was in school a conversation between two foreign students (from different countries). A was complaining about B's culture, and was itemizing the headaches. B countered with all the problems A's culture had. A responded with "Yeah, but I know how to deal with all those problems!"

kind of hard to imagine people living in Germany and thinking "oh, this erdogan guy has the right idea"

Your comment is completely irrelevant to mine, given how I explicitly am not talking about Erdogan, Germany, or Turkish people in Germany.

> For a long time I sort of assumed that the advantages of living in a democracy are sort of self evident (provided you live there), I apparently was wrong.

If you are a cynic, the best part about democracies is there is a much lower chance of violent overthrows - much easier to just wait it out and vote the current leaders out next election; barring an extremely corrupt leader whose existence is irreparably damaging the country - and that’s pretty much one of the few good things about it.

Leaders trade absolute power for not having to watch their backs as closely.