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Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by bzbarsky on Thursday December 20, 2018 @03:45PM (#18728955)
Your list is missing "pro-democracy advocates", "Muslims", "Christians", "Jews", "atheists", "women who want an abortion", "people trying to escape an abusive relationship", "people with interesting medical conditions", etc, depending on location.

Please don't pretend that both "only criminals have something to hide" and "criminals are by definition bad people" are true statements. Neither is true.

Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by cortesoft on Thursday December 20, 2018 @06:17PM (#18730138)
I get what you are saying, and agree with you in principle... but the problem is, I am none of those things. I have none of the qualities that I need to hide from anyone, rather neighbors or the government. While it kinda feels creepy to imagine myself being listened to, I can't imagine any real consequences to my private conversations being heard.

However, I know that there are lots of people who do have those things they need to hide, and if only the people who need to keep things private work to keep things private, than the very fact that they are keeping things private becomes a risk factor.

Just like how part of the value of https everywhere is to prevent encrypted traffic from standing out, everyone maintaining privacy helps prevent people who NEED privacy from standing out.

Of course, as an individual, there is a cost for demanding that privacy - I lose out on the benefits of things like the echo and facebook. And since I am not an individual who needs privacy, there is no individual incentive to maintain it. It is a bit of a collective action problem.

Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by lemming on Thursday December 20, 2018 @07:33PM (#18730550)
Hey Alexa, do these symptoms sound like cancer?

"Sir, we have decided for unspecified reasons to suddenly decline your medical insurance. Have a nice day."

Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by bzbarsky on Friday December 21, 2018 @12:52AM (#18731654)
Right, I have a hard time faulting people for deciding that they want to use voice assistants. That's more or less their choice. I am a lot more ambivalent about people who leave the voice assistants running when they have guests, because at that point they are making that choice for the guests too...

I think there's a lot of unexplored "how should/will society work" ground here, or at least explored only in science fiction, and it will be interesting to see how things shake out in the future. Maybe we will move to an "assume everyone is recorded all the time and put 0 weight on these recordings in anything that matters" world, for example... Hard to tell.

Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by matte_black on Thursday December 20, 2018 @06:01PM (#18730022)
If you live under a government where those examples are a reason to hide, then in the eyes of that government you are technically a criminal. Doesn’t describe my government.

Even under the most oppressive governments though, there will still be a sizable majority that doesn’t have anything to hide and can feel secure using most technology, and they’ll be fine.

Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by bzbarsky on Friday December 21, 2018 @12:48AM (#18731645)
First, having talked a lot to people who actually lived under a somewhat oppressive government (USSR, and by the 80s it wasn't even that oppressive), most people _did_ in fact have something to hide.

Second, just because it doesn't describe your government now doesn't mean it won't in the future, unfortunately. Consider examples of a 1920s German, or a 1960s Iranian (the old regime was oppressive too, but in different ways), or a 2000s citizen of Poland.

Third, there are certainly places where the danger is not from the government but from your neighbors, including to some of the groups I listed. So thinking about this only from the perspective of governments and criminality is off. Hence my claim that "only criminals have something to hide" is a false statement.

Fourth, I suspect that perception of how much one has to hide is highly age-dependent. As people get older they discover more and more things that they either want to hide or wish they could have hidden. Maybe I'm wrong in my guess as to your age, of course, but if I am not, I strongly urge talking about this sort of thing with people a few decades older. It can be _very_ eye-opening. Certainly was for me.

Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by matte_black on Friday December 21, 2018 @10:26AM (#18733835)
> Second, just because it doesn't describe your government now doesn't mean it won't in the future, unfortunately. Consider examples of a 1920s German, or a 1960s Iranian (the old regime was oppressive too, but in different ways), or a 2000s citizen of Poland.

This is the risk averse argument against certain technologies. If you believe your government won’t change and are willing to take that bet, you can lean into technologies very hard and reap the benefits.

Of course, if you think there may be a day where your government will change and use technologies against you, you could live out in the boonies and never even touch a computer, and thus get no benefits from emerging tech.

It’s a trade off between being at the bleeding edge and being as secure and private as possible. Personally, I have made my decision. Could it be my undoing one day if government decides I’m guilty of everything? Sure, but I doubt it will happen. I’ll take the bet.

Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by bzbarsky on Friday December 21, 2018 @12:41PM (#18734924)
As I said above everyone can make this decision for themselves, and should. It's just important to me to not paint any of the decisions here as "only criminals would do that"! Past that, I figure adults can and should decide these things for themselves.

That said, I also think we should work toward changing the nature of the tradeoff, e.g. by changing how voice assistants work to minimize the privacy issues. I suspect there's a lot of work we could do on that front while not compromising the functionality of the voice assistants.

Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by justinclift on Thursday December 20, 2018 @06:31PM (#18730208)
> Doesn’t describe my government.

... yet? :)

Re:Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person by mokus on Thursday December 20, 2018 @11:10PM (#18731363)
> Doesn’t describe my government.

This mindset seems to be why the US political parties keep handing each other more and more federal power. Nobody can imagine their nation would be so stupid as to ever put the Other Guys back in power again.